Satan Quoting The Vedas....... Again!

Dear Sridhar,

First of all, I am a little slow and hence the question...Who is the Satan here?? Even after ransacking my brain, I am lost about it !

But..Yes....this was a very good and thought provoking article from you. I hope you remember that some time back, we did exchange our views about a very similar theme.

Once again, in your characteristic way, you have brought our attention to Rabia al Basri's writings and I hope to read her words sometime without fail. Nice quotes from her.

These thoughts are very noble. Surely, we don't want to use God as some sort of vendor . But when harassed with many troubles, it will be very difficult to sit peacefully and meditate upon God and NOT ASK for his protection ! Will I ever be able to do that ? If He wills, I will !

And in all this....Poor Rajathilakam...I cannot but help feeling sorry for her Varalotti !

L, Kamla

Dear Varalotti

Discovering Rabia al Basri through your post, thanx to yr. friend Surjit, was a truly enlightening experience. I googled her name immediately and read up what little is known about that sufi saint. The sentiment pervading her jewel like poem is after my own heart ; i have always held the same belief.

Heaven ? Hell ? what are those but more items to be listed under the
" Kandavar vindilar
Vindavar kandilar" enigma !

If Adoration is only a Pavlovian response to concepts of Reward and Punishment, then I think it is bound to be inherently fickle and patently superficial, quite susceptible to any Mephistophelean bargain that may come its way. It may as well give itself a more fitting name. "Trade", perhaps ?

What a waste of emotion and Faith it is to wallow in the sentimental perplexities of Expectation and Disappointments when a higher bounty of fulfilment and peacefulness is quite within reach if only one abandons oneself to the love of The Power unconditionally. Like an infant in the cradle. Like a puppy dog.

Quote Amrita Pritam :

Yeh Ishq khuda ki rehmat hai
Yeh jism usiki ibadat hai
yeh dharti ki jo nemat hai
yeh ahle khuda ki muhabbat hai

Muhabbat se badkar kuch bhi nahin
hum bhi nahin; tum bhi nahin
jab khud hi khuda ka roop hue
to khudi ka ye bandhan toot chale


But prayers and praying do have their value and ,as mere mortals, we cannot abjure prayers. We instinctively turn towards a Cosmic Power we consider greater than ourselves in times of need. But it is within ourselves to recondition our attitude to Prayer. By acknowledging with full faith that the Cosmic Power is actually within us, we being part of it, we can learn to use prayer as a stairway to reach the vast storehouse of potential, capabilities and strengths that lie within ourselves, instead of just pestering a god to give us this , that or the other.

Ramana Maharishi, replying to questions of the philosopher M.Sivaprakasam Pillai ( in 1902) said : " We know that the train carries everything, passengers and their luggages. Why should we, the passengers in the train, carry our bags and bundles on our head to our own discomfort ( " sumappaanen ?") when we can put it all down for the train to carry and just feel at ease ?"

Thanx & rgds
manjula

Dear Varalotti

Nice and thought provoking. Only thing I would like to add afew lines. Who is GOD and Where is he.

Natta kallum pesumo nathan ull irukkayil. God is not in the stone idols with various forms. He is everywhere. He is within u and me. Only thing is we dont realise that he exists. In this materialistic world we realise him only when we get into problems or requirement arises.

We dont know where to find him and how to approach him for our requirements. That is the reason we go to various temples and do various poojas.

The day a person realises that GOD is within himself and sees through, then he will not think of materialistic benefits and will not come out of it. He will forget everything. He will become a yogi with all detachments.

Inner Peace, happiness......whatever u ask him, that is also like asking for a gift from a rich uncle. Dont ask. Surrender urself to HIM with utmost faith...
Believe in the GOD within urself. It will help u....

Veda

Hello Varalotti sir,

Like Kamala even I am at a loss to understand who is the Satan? However my two paise worth here goes......

I pray to God only for two things--Let only good things happen,Please show me only the right way.

I do not have a wish list and believe that whatever happens happens for the best. Even if sometimes what may appear as bad happens,I take solace from the fact that God who is the ultimate sutradhar or master planner has planned it for my good. This is my personal experience.

Regards,

Abha.

Dear Kamla,

Your asking Satan to reveal himself is a bit too much and I dont Satan, in his senses, will ever oblige you.

Yes, Kamla, this is the effect of the What to Pray For Thread started by Puja almost a year ago. As I told you the thoughts expressed therein was so powerful that I have written a whole book about that. But still I am not satisfied and hence I grabbed another opportunity to post similar thoughts.

When we are in trouble sure, we can seek God's help. We can pray for our deliverance. We can pray that we may be shown the way. At least at this stage we cannot go beyond that. But to start with, we should, when we are not in the midst of fire or drowning in water, when we are comfortable with what we have, we should stop praying for longer cars, larger houses and more sparking jewellery or more money or fame or whatever it is.

And while we can pray with our shopping list, once in a way we should learn to see God not as a benevolent shopper or Alladin's Genie and just pray. Period. Not to pray for this or that, just pray. That will be a prayer in adoration. And adoration, as Rabia said, not out of fear of hell or desire for paradise, but adoration for the sake of adoration. Then God will not deny to us Her eternal beauty.

And in all this....Poor Rajathilakam...I cannot but help feeling sorry for her Varalotti !

And if you had seen her much later you would have changed your expression, Poor Varalotti. Rajathilakam is a standing example in my life to remind me that while God shows his love by answering our prayers, he reveals His even more profound love to us by denying our prayers.

Whenever I see someone far ahead of me in life (I see so many people of late, in this category) and start praying God for something similar to what that person has, Rajathilakam appears before me in all her splendour and reminds me of God's love. I correct myself.

Thanks Kamla by adding charm to this thread with your post.
Love,

Dear Manju Reddy,
What more proof do you need about the identity of Satan? I delayed replying to your post, a really eloquent post, in this thread for days on end, while your Naidu Hall thread elicited an instantaneous reply from me.


"If Adoration is only a Pavlovian response to concepts of Reward and Punishment, then I think it is bound to be inherently fickle and patently superficial, quite susceptible to any Mephistophelean bargain that may come its way. It may as well give itself a more fitting name. "Trade", perhaps ?"

Well, Madam, the above passage is clearly beyond my ken. If you can kindly translate it into plain English for the benefit of "paamarans" like me (there are lots of my species here in IL) the entire specie will be grateful to you.

But prayers and praying do have their value and ,as mere mortals, we cannot abjure prayers. We instinctively turn towards a Cosmic Power we consider greater than ourselves in times of need. But it is within ourselves to recondition our attitude to Prayer. By acknowledging with full faith that the Cosmic Power is actually within us, we being part of it, we can learn to use prayer as a stairway to reach the vast storehouse of potential, capabilities and strengths that lie within ourselves, instead of just pestering a god to give us this , that or the other.
A powerful truth eloquently stated. I am not denying the power of our petitionary prayers. I am only saying that once in a way we should get used to adoratry and grateful prayers.

Ramana Maharishi, replying to questions of the philosopher M.Sivaprakasam Pillai ( in 1902) said : " We know that the train carries everything, passengers and their luggages. Why should we, the passengers in the train, carry our bags and bundles on our head to our own discomfort ( " sumappaanen ?") when we can put it all down for the train to carry and just feel at ease ?"

Ramana's example is powerful in its own way. While on this I suggest your reading Ramana's Tamil poems. Two of his works are powerful - Upadesa Undiyar and Ullavai Narpathu. These two have been haunting me even now, though it was 16 years back, when I read them for the first time.

Thanks, Manju Reddy for a very good, a very eloquent post. Eagerly waiting for your plain English translation of the para cited above.

regards,

Dear Veda,

What you say is profoundly true. God is not in stones or other external forms. He is in us. He is us and we are Him (or Her). But we have this forms as a means of convenience.

Think of a lover who is separated from her beloved. Will she not use her beloved's picture to somehow mitigate her sorrow? God in the form of a stone is the picture of our beloved. And till we realise that God is in us and God is us, till the beloved is present in person, there is no harm in using a picture or a statue.

The problem arises only when we tend to be absorbed in the form when the reality is there. Take the above example. If the beloved has come back and the love birds are sitting in a park. Suppose the lady now is staring at the picture of her beloved ignoring his direct presence then it is a serious problem.

Just by repeating his names or chanting the slokas mindlessly we cant get an inkling of experience of God. The same saint whom you have quoted has said else where,

chutta chatti sattuvam karichuvai ariyumo?

Meaning the pot used to cook delicious food, the spoon (sattuvam) will never know the taste of food though they are in constant touch with the food.

Yes surrender has to be total. And while surrendering to His supreme love we should not even expect that he would accept us. We will surrender. And let him abandon us totally. Even that would not change our attitude of surrender to him.
Thanks Veda for the thoughts.
regards,

Hello Abha,
As I told Kamla, if you cant find out who is Satan, Satan is not going to come out of hiding and shout, "Here I am." Satan does not have that courage. So let's leave him out.

"I do not have a wish list and believe that whatever happens happens for the best. Even if sometimes what may appear as bad happens,I take solace from the fact that God who is the ultimate sutradhar or master planner has planned it for my good. This is my personal experience."

that's a loving attitude towards our maker. If only all of us can live like that, it will be a great world.
thanks
Regards,

Abha.[/quote]

Dear PaamaraRR ( oru mariyaathai thaan !)

1. There was no necessity for you to present before me any circumstantial evidence as proof of identity , as I did not have the Satanic doubt that Kamla and Abha had, to begin with.

2. I sincerely thank you for certifying my post as "good" and "eloquent". Always a pleasure to be commended by a pro.

3. If the passage went over your head, so be it. That para was my personal critique about religion(s), vendors of religion(s) and the competing sales pitches of those vendors of religion(s), the three pronged assault weapon that strangulates true faith.
Explanation ? Forget it.

rgds,
manjula

After having read your replies here as well as in Ambalainga Samacharam thread I very badly miss Vidyasarada.
VS, where are you? Save me from MR.