3 or 7

Hi friends,
Don't think this as of a numerological analysis or something like that!
These numbers are of great relevance in our religion because the decision in choosing between 3 and 7, gave us 9 avatars so far and 1 is pending!
I hope you had guessed now, what i am going to say further.

This happened 3 yugas before, in Vishnu lokam--where the security guards of that lokam, namely Jaya and Vijaya were doing their duty and they were cursed by Sanath Kumarar for not letting them inside the Vishnu lokam. They were asked to be born in this world to suffer. Hearing this Vishnu came out and gave them an option of either 3 births being extremely bad and cruel or 7 pious births and ultimately reach Him thereafter, for which Jaya and Vijaya chose the number 3 and you all know that it paved the way for Dasavatharam.

My question is-
why they chose to be bad even if they had the option of pious births?
It maybe the leela of the Lord, but what does that convey to us?

Being bad with always chanting the name of the Lord, (which is the Ninda stuthi-accepted by the Almighty Himself) and giving immense suffering to others, is this acceptable.
Did they take any births thereafter to 'cleanse' their cruel acts?
eventhough they wanted to reach the Lord quickly, they could have done that doing good things in this world and helping others also to attain Moksha.

Is it that bad things are getting attracted to, easily and the good things take time to be attracted?

Sriniketan

Hi Sriniketan,
Its a very good question, but tough to answer.
Let's wait and see, what other Ilites are going to respond.

~Punitha

Thanks Punitha for your post.
This question is bothering me for a long time for which i am not able to get the answer.
Like you I am also waiting for an answer from our fellow-ilites.

sriniketan

Very very intersting. I wasnt aware of all of this. shows my ignorance. Anyway it looks like they want to get done with births and rush back to God. I wont blame them either. Moreover all this good and bad and stuff is Maya so they are aware of the true reality. This is coming from makku person so bear with me Bhargavi.

Hi AC,
Thanks for your response.
I am also makku, that's the reason this question popped up in my mind.
Maya is accepted but what does that convey to us-being bad you will go to God quickly( this will definitely not be the point) ( what they wanted us to learn from those?) or being good it will take long to reach God--in which case everybody will choose the short-cut, right?

sriniketan

Hello,
I want to know what is the moral of this story and what good part we need to adopt in our life based on this story.

~Punitha

hi Bhargavi and all,

Here is my take on the whole story. I think you should look at jaya and Vijaya as being used like guinea pigs by the lord to let the people know what happens when some one is really bad.

See , we all know that these two came in the following three births:
1. Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashyapa:
2. Ravana and Kumbhakarna
3. kamsa and sisupala (i am not sure about kamsa though it could be dhanvantra).

As asuras to be feared. The then people ( good and bad) who used to live in those respective yugas, did not know that the above births were of Jaya and vijaya, due to the curse on them. They were just another pair of baddies for all the " amjan" . So the lord took his avatarams( varaha, narasimha, rama, and krishna) to destroy them. There by showing the goodies that pray to me earnestly and i will be your saviour. And the baddies, don't mess with the good people, or else!!

So the moral is still do good and attain god. J and V in their eagerness to return to their work and also being good devotees of the lord, chose to show the world ,what happens to bad people in their 3 births.
Never take it that the bad people attain god quickly.
One thing needs to be said is that even in all the baddness, the said people above were great bhaktas.

Hope Ms C or anyone else can throw more insight into this.

My

Vandhana

Hi sriniketan,

I am back here...interesting question....

Jaya and vijaya, the gatekeepers, did not recognise the sanatha muni kumaras as they were pint sized...(as they always looked like 5-year olds)..as by then these two gatekeepers had obtained a subtle pride in their duties as the gate keepers....they stop them and assuming them to be ordinary 5 years olds , ridicule and etc.....angered by this the wise sages..curse them....
that they would be born as terrible demons


After this there are two versions one where the sages soften and tell them that they will be born only thrice and will be slayed by hari and retain their present glory...
the first incarnation, Jaya and Vijaya became Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashipu by Narasimha.
second incarnation, Jaya and Vijay became Ravana and Kumbhakama by Rama
third incarnation, Shishupala and Dantavarka and were destroyed by Lord Vishnu incarnating as Lord Krishna


Well the significance of the story has been very well explained by Mysticism of Srimad Bhagavatam by Swami Jyotirmayanand....which i am posting as it is...as the essence should not be lost.... Jaya and Vijaya represent two great virtues -- vivek and vairagya. Viveka is purity of intellect th shows the difference between truth and falsehoo between spirit and matter, between the Self and t not-Self. Vairagyais dispassion toward all that is n Self.

Jaya literally means victory. Vijaya means speci victory. An aspirantwho is qualifiedis allowedto e the heavenly gates by these attendants-viveka vairagya. When you develop purity of reason which discriminates between right and wrong, you ha secured the favor of Jaya (general victory). When you advance in vairagya, the victory achieved by viveka fortified and secured. You attain the favor of Vijaya (special victory).
Due to the presence of subtle pride, the origin glory of Jaya and Vijaya had become tarnished. In ignorant the very same divine energy that manifests viveka and vairagya turns into ajnana(ignorance).
The Sanatkumaras represent the principle of pufity. When a person attains absolute purity he becomes childlike; however, he is far from being childish. The entry of those Sanatkumaras through the gates symbolizes the unfoldment of purity in the heart of an aspirant. Even the slightest presence of ignorance (ajnana) and attachment (asakti) will not be tolerated by the principle of purity (the Sanatkumaras). Thus, the curse of the Sanatkumaras suggests in a highly mystical way the need for waging war against ignorance and attachment repeatedly, until they turn into their original forms-Jaya and Vijaya.
Whenever a demon is destroyed by a divine incarnation, the divine energy that was short-circuited has been corrected. The demoniac qualities in a human being are due to obstructions caused by the unenlightened mind. As one advances on the path of devotion, those demoniac qualities are destroyed and divine qualities are promoted until one attains God-realization or unity with the Divine Self.

Hi Srini,

The last line of your post itself explains the answer to this question.
And it is so true that it is very difficult to practice the good things and very easy to get addicted to the bad .It depends on our wisdom to choose to do either evil or good things.Again this wisdom comes from the good acts we did in the past.

And Jaya and Vijaya could have chosen to do the good things for the 7 birth.As a simple thing 7 is more than 3 and when they opt to be enemies of Srihari they could finish their curse with in 3 births.They have only 2 choices either3 or 7 and above all it is the plan of Lord Vishnu to destroy the evils.

Vandhana,
Thanks for your prespective in this topic.
I surely think V and J are guinea pigs paving the way for the 9 Avatars of Lord Vishnu.
I also accept the fact that they taught us to 'be good otherwise you all will meet the fate just like us'.
There are indeed, true bakthas of the Lord.

sriniketan