Why obc, why not fbi ???

This is one ever-going, never-ending argument isn't?

There are well settled families in OBC. Likewise there are families below the poverty line in FC too. But what is the ratio / percentage of OBC people who are not well to do as apposed to the ratio / percentage of people in the FC caste? In the 60+ years of independence what is the ratio of OBC people who have gained better social & economic conditions? There is definitely a huge imbalance here & without considering these numbers / ratios, IMHO, its meaningless to blame that the OBCs are getting more privilege, in the name of reservation policy. This is but their right as they have suffered / made to suffer & still suffer much due to the once severe caste systems, that their growth has been stalled for so many years now, that they are given these reservations based on the caste to come up, equaling the percentage of FC, both socially & economically.

Its true that this right is being exploited, say the creamy layer issues and our government should do something about it, may be rewrite the reservation policies, close the loopholes may be? Its high time already....

This is just my understanding, correct me if am wrong here....

 

FBI is a good idea in theory not sure how it will be in practicle. I remember there were scholarship for economically backward during my school days .

coming to reservations , I think the initial reason was also social oppression of these sc/st which gave rise to reservations and later OBC was added . I too agree that reservations based on economically backward is a good idea but it does not address the caste devides which exist in society more so in rural areas .

in any case I would say only one generation should get benefits of reservation. Once a person gets a job with reservation and is in good income bracket , his or her's future generatin should be out of scope.

i know someone who volunterily chose Private sector over govt sector due to the caste stigma which is in play in govt sectors

And I also know that one time my IT company wanted to take caste based cencus to prepare a report that certain percentage of sc/st/OBC worked in thier organization. I am pretty sure only very naive persons would have declared thier caste . Most would have chose not to declare as to not invite negative perception issues

 

Nice idea Madhu, but let me reason out why the nice-idea may turn out to be not-so-nice idea here in India.
Though the popular perception is 'they were oppressed 100s of years based on caste and not money, so the reservations should be caste based', it is not true.

Here we don't have a system to know how much money a person actually has/makes. The number of Income Tax frauds is way ahead than the number of fake caste certificate frauds. A farmer in a village, can easily show loss, claiming the crops failed and there is no way to check it. The only people who are remotely even traceable based on money are the white collared Bank and IT guys. And you know that’s just 5% of our population. How many times we get bills from small road side shops, they can easily account as if they never sold anything. They can pretty much claim loss. And the people in villages, don't even have pan cards. what about the govt. job folks? They get paid pretty less (officially), but earn more than IT guys thanks to bribes, that are unaccounted for.

In contrast to this, everyone has a caste certificate. Though the system is flawed and some people abuse it by getting a false certificate, it is still way less than the 95% error margin that "going by money" will have.
This is just a bird’s-eye-view of why reservations cannot be possible with economic status, there’s lot more to it.

Discussion on caste based reservation is a sensitive topic, so I’m not going there, though I’m not for it.

 

Dear Madhu,

America is one great example of how a government system of giving welfare based on financial status of individuals would fail. Both long-term disability and short-term disability benefits were created for someone who is genuinely not able to work but there are so many examples of people misusing this system. Unemployment benefit is another big area where there is a lot of misuse.

I won't say I don't like the idea of implementing a category of "FBI" as suggested by you but before doing that, there has to be a crystal clear path to establish the financial status of individuals. In my view, there are a very few countries in the world that would qualify to benefit from government assisted programs. Before that citizens should become honest not to claim any benefit unless it is required. Even among OBC, how many claim benefits when they are very well off financially?

In my view, reservation system is the price the country is paying for the sins committed by forward community in the earlier generation. But, if we get benefits out of great things inherited from our forefathers, we have to also inherit the liabilities associated with their lives.

Ideal situation is to get to a stage where the welfare programs are minimized only to underprivileged and not across the board either based on caste or financial status. 25% of the population in the country who are starving and below the poverty line should be first uplifted before we get into the details of reservation and economically backward community.

Viswa

 

In a country like India, where corruption is deeply rooted any kind of govt policy can be misused to the core, as someone rightly pointed out only the white collar guys have to pay tax on each and every penny they earn....
With the current prevailing situation Indian economy may grow bigger, but the level of national development won't be able to meet China's standards even after 2020..

Every one these days producing obc cert for admissions and jobs along with other reservations as prescribed in the govt rules, out of them around 80-90 percent are fake guys, but they would end up securing admission within all the Premier schools of India where as a GEN candidate has to suffer even though he is in the top 5-10 percentile band of the merit list..

No offense, none taken....

 

Well written, It is unfortunate that many steps suggested with good intentions by our first set of leaders of Independent India backfired due to the wrong (or deliberately planned) interpretations by the subsequent rulers/leaders. Just take one example: the caste-based reservation policy. While it was meant to balance the inequalities that existed in the society at the time Independence by enforcing reservation for a short period.The main defect lies that the definition of'short period' was not stipulated.

There is no use of blaming Manu dharma sastra for each and every thing and blaming the so called innocent upper class, who may not even know who Manu was and what the caste system really meant? how long one can be punished for the so called discrepancies in the society?

we have a situation where even after 6 decades we continue the policy with much worse impact...If the reservation policy had not achieved the goals in the first phase, say for about 30years, then the policy itself should have been scrapped as ineffective and a better and more scientific method adopted. Instead, now more and more castes vie with each other to be included in the eligible categories for reservations, thereby negating the intentions and denying the benefits to the originally intended persons.
I do not know if Ambedkar had an inherent hatred towards any community. But the fact is, today, even after 68 years, the caste system continues and the s0-called upper castes are either ignored or ill-treated by the political lords because they form a much smaller vote bank. The economic party that Ambedkar envisaged has only resulted in making more and more of the so called upper caste poorer in everything.

May be we made the mistake of adopting a caste based reservation policy instead of economic reservation right from the beginning. Even now it is not too late to adopt that but our leaders are now thinking of widening the reservation to minority communities instead of economically weaker sections, for pure vote bank reasons.

In 1990 my son was within the top 100 ranks, eligible for admission to Anna University, Madras. But the then Chief minister brought forth a ruling that graduates of the first generation will be awarded 5 extra marks at the cut off point. Many people ,in spite of being post graduates declared that they were undergraduates and people like us who didn't want to give false declaration.My son's rank came down by 600 numbers.He could get admission only in a Govt.The very next year the case was taken to court and the Govt withdrew the scheme.
I am not against reservation policy.It has benefitted a few.many people are vying with each other by spending thousands to be included in particular castes just for reservation purposes.
Now the country is facing a crisis in following a failing concept.
Jayasala 42

 

India is the only country people fight hard to be called themselves as "Backward" class..

Lets continue doing this...Will the Politicians be allowed themselves to be operated by a Dr who did not get a Medical seat through merit, but through Quota...

Long live reservation system....Lets give our best brains to other country...if they dont go by themselves, we will ensure we shoo them away in the name of reservation

 

Dear @madhuprabha sister,

First let me appreciate your well intended forward thinking post on a vital issue facing our Nation, yet again recently high lighted by the Gujarat riots.

Virtually in all societies there was always a small section, which over ages has cornered the resources at the expense of the majority. This was the reason for many social, political and religious conflicts. It was the 'Nobles' VS commoner in England and France. It is the American VS African American in US. It is the FCs and OBCs VS the Scs/ STs in India.

The ages of exploitation has resulted in not only economic backwardness but also perpetuation of it through ensuring backwardness in knowledge and administration and the skills to acquire them.

This deficiency has reflected in the fields of arts, leadership qualities, managerial skills, social skills and knowledge in every other field.

Social Evolution and development along with technology brought the concept of equality and equitable distribution and enjoyment of resources. The attempt to achieve this end have taken dangerous forms like French Revolution, and Communists Revolution in Russia and China and many many wars.

Free India has indeed successfully avoided bloodshed seen in Russia, US, China and France, in the modern era of equalization of resources, through enshrining it in its Constitution from which the policy of reservation flows.

Reservation in educational institutions and reservation in administration machinery are just only two well intended steps to correct the age old inequalities created by a small group over a majority.

While this is the upside of the policy, there is also a downside as normally could be expected in any conflicting issue resolution.

Of course, when applied uniformly without considering the individual cases, this creates individual cases of injustice. Also when applied blindfold sacrificing the minimum functional standards , this can create problems for the society.

No doubt there is still a case to bring economic and social equality for the section which was oppressed for ages, even after 69 years of independence. The backwards are yet to catch up with the forwards in general. No doubt there is much to be done.

But there is also case, in which Indian society should find a redressal mechanism for

-a) redressing the grievances of those individuals who were done injustice by blind application of the policy for reservations.

b) ensuring those circumstances in which the minimum functional standards are not be compromised in the name of reservation, in certain critical areas like Research, Appellate Judiciary, Medicine, National Security etc.,

c) ensuring the political representation of the forwards to avoid a situation in which they are not oppressed by the neo-powerful majority in a democracy.

Of course, as @madhuprabha sister has desired, the ultimate objective is to have a Welfare State in which the society, through the government, aims for an equitable distribution and enjoyment of all resources for all and coming to the support of the weak by targeted special supportive programmes.

 

I also feel that if one generation then the next generation should not get it. Their children should compete in the open competition......whether OBC or FBI.
Syamala