Retired or Not retired?

Originally Posted by ammukutty

Dear AC,
You have come up with a very relevant topic for discussion.I have seen a mom who bursted into tears saying that she is ashamed of her daughter who makes her baby sit & do all the works & never lend a helping hand. In India they will be on their own enjoying their freedom ,visiting relatives,temples etc.Here they seem to be more depressed because of their ill health,loneliness & extreme climate.
But there are two sides of this issue.I know a family where the in-laws insisted on visiting US for the simple reason the DIL's parents had a chance to visit US for her delivery & after care.The FIL is a heart patient & MIL cannot even stand the winter in India.Now they are sitting inside the house while the son& DIL go to work & the grandson is going to a day care.They dont have the health to take care of themselves,then how come the grandson?Can you imagine the plight of a couple who had to bring both their moms to help with the delivery & what happened further is left to your imagination.

love,
ammu

Dear Ammu
Thanks for commenting here.. You have so well pointed out the topic of discussion from personal observances. Its sad to hear but true.

Originally Posted by JayaJ

Dear AC,

A very interesting and thought provoking thread.

Let me tell you about my case. I leave my daughter with my mother from morning 10am till 5 pm. Yes, my mom takes care of her the whole day while i sit in office.

I joined work when i daughter complted 1.5 yrs. I had a live-in maid who betrayed my trust so i fired her after 2 months of work and my mom offered to look after my daughter while i went to work. My mom encourages working women. she infact advocates it.

So during weekdays, my daughter is with her grandmother all day. On weekends, we spend time with our daughter - ofcourse we visit mom for some time on either saturday or sunday.

I feel guilty but the flip side is that my mom adores her granddaughter and waits for her arrival. Even on weekends, she waits for that couple of hours when she can see her grandchild. So, i think in my case, it works both ways. But i know i am burdening her with more work and i feel terribly guilty. To lessen my guilt, i deposit the same amount of money that i would pay if i were to hire a maid into my mom's account.

I realise my mother will also need the money some time, some day...and she shouldnt be in a plightful condition of extending her palm out to me or any of her other children during those times. This money in her account is her hard earned money to be used however she wishes. From time to time on any festival days, i make it a point to buy my mom something - her sarees / gifts as token of appreciation.

To some of you reading this, it may come as a shock.
why pay ur own mother??? its a question my sisters too asked.

I know there are daughters or DILs who think its the mother's/MIL's duty to look after their grandchild. But i dont agree one bit with that kind of thinking.

There are two sides to a coin. This is my thinking and i dont know if i am unjustly using my mother to meet my needs but its a guilt that i live with everyday.

Dear Jaya
Thanks for your reply. You have given us a different perspective to look at.

Originally Posted by Srividhya Ramadurai

A very interesting topic indeed. Grandparents involving themselves in childrearing responsibilities,teaching the kids morals and guiding them through difficult times is acceptable, if there are maids/cleaners around. But, the elderly citizens are used as substitutes for cooks,cleaners and baby sitters nowadays. Elders are decided to be kept in the house on one condition that they take care of the grandchildren,cook the food, launder their clothes.... Once the parents come home from work, they take the kids from the grandparents-into their room and lock themselves up(calling it spending time together). They will refresh themselves and come out for their dinner made by the old lady, who is then left to clean out the mess.
Having parents with you and taking care of their needs is the best service one can do to one's parents. Its not wrong for both the partners to go out to work, but see that proper care will be taken of your parents/in laws and your kids in your absense. Our parents have gone through so many hardships to make us happy, they will continue to do so without complaining. But, let us not fail in our duty to take care of them and keep them happy. Let us give them all the love and care that we give to our children without complaining.

Srividhya
Interesting reply. Thanks for stepping in. Welcome to IL.

Originally Posted by Jananikrithsan

Dear AC,
Going to the US to look after the grand kids can be a joy given the older couple's health. I have heard of our friend who went there and then there were medical complications and as the traemnet would have costed a bomb they were sent back to India. Many aprents live here in Chennai alone no knowing what the future holds forr them given their health conditions. There are parents who leave the kid wth their parents for the first two years and then when they taken them back to th US or any other country they are left at the daycare.I know of a couple who were ahppy to help their son by babysittung their grand kid, but when they did go they wre given a seperate rooma d the sn and Dil hardly had tie to lokk to their needs , considering that they wre new to the country and needed assistance to get around.
It should be the case where the grand parents and the parents have a amicable situation so that the stay will be enoyable to both.

Retired from office working for the kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Janani my friend
so very well said... its sad to note how some parents are treated.. not fair I think.. You are right in saying retired from office but working for the kids.. maybe the cycle never ends.

Originally Posted by Malathijagan

Dear Anandchitra,
Whether in USA or India, the grand parents are facing the same problem. Of course when the aged parents have to travel all over to America it is an added difficulty. As Kamla has said, there are a few grand parents who love to visit the States as many times as possible so that they can boast with their friends, relatives and neighbours about their experiences in USA hiding the fact that the whole time there was spent in baby sitting and doing house hold chores.(These lot come mostly from the middle class society). The affluent too have their own set of problems. After bringing up their own children having made lots of sacrifices and compromises especially in the present day nuclear family set up, when they want to sit back and relax in the company of each other, looking back into the past and cherishing the sweet memories, they are beckoned by their children to take care of the grand children.
I can give examples of a lot of my friends, both in India and in the States who are taking care of their grand children, taking them to various classes like music, skating, karate etc. while their daughters/dils are happily off to work. Such people who per chance read this line may come attacking me for having said this. But child rearing is one of the most difficult job not only for grand parents who are into their second innings of the same job but also for young mothers. It is the most challenging job compared to any other job in this world. If a child is not brought up to become a good human being, this world is going to become rotten. We all must have read about the Akbar-Birbal story, where Birbal needs all the skill to stop the child's tantrums.
I do feel that baby sitting should not be thrust upon the grandparents. But if they are young and energetic, and take up the task willingly and at their terms, it is going to benefit the whole family. It is always better to have our own people to take care of the child rather than leave him/ her in the creche.
It would be best, as Kamalji has pointed out, that the mother takes a break from her job/profession till the child starts going to school. In this way, the mother too would get the satisfaction and joy of motherhood and the child too would get the warmth and love of the mother. Again some feminists may raise a voice of protest-"Why mothers? why not the father quit the job?" Nature has made mothers for a specific purpose. A mother's patience and love is not found in the fathers though there may be exceptions.
So my personal opinion is that the aged parents should be given their free space in their retired life.
Regards,
Malathi

Dear Malathi
Its no surprise to see your incredibly well worded reply.. Wonderful to read.. thanks.
I whole heartedly agree with you that our parents should be given the space and time they need.. also we should be more supportive of them and help them thru their advanced years.. Its saddens me no end to see parents being abused in any form.. Its also totally against our culture and values.. But have you ever thought why some parents subject themselves to this? They could at any time refuse to be made ot baby sit etc.. they do have a choice.. Its maybe their fear of being left back and alone..

Originally Posted by geeth

Oh My dear Sunkan mam,
i was about to post a reply for this thread and before doing so i just went through the other posts. Oh! exactly the same views you have expressed which i wanted to post here.

Today's life style has changed a lot and i am afraid where it will end as people have started living like separate islands forming nuclear families. Not only in US even in india it is like that only.
I agree in US when GPs arrive they have to depend on daughter, DIL,son or SILfor everything. they cannot go out of their own say shopping or visiting a relative. they have to wait till the week end to be taken. but these cannot be the reason for the frustration. As kamala mam has said many of them take this chance to visit and go around US. US still remains a dream world for many here. You know howmany of the parents purposefully search for a Boy working in US or other countries. and Many of the parents take it as a pride to send their son or daughter to do MS and work in US.

The bond between grand parents and grand children, a child's relationship- bond with uncles(mama), aunts(athais), periyammas, periappas, chithis all is fading away.

As a child i had enjoyed my grandparents', athai's mama's love a lot. My paternal grandpa used to keep me in his lap at night and tell me all panchathantra, moral stories, stories from our epics etc. My paternal grandma used to teach me slokams, small small carnatic thukkadas etc..My athais used to take me to school, if i cried they would sit with me in the school for sometime and they would leave and they used to dance and sing with me and taught me to dance also. my mamas used to teach me school lessons when i went to my mother's house. since my mother was sick most of the years i was at my paternal grandparent's side for some years and then at my maternal grand parent's side. I learnt lot of lessons from these families. No one had any regrets for looking after me and my brother. Any family member could advise us be it mama, athai, mami, perimma perippa or grandparents we had never frowned at them. even now i have a thick bond with my mama and mamis though all my athais and other uncles, grand parents are no more. such is our thick bond.
CAn any grandparent, uncle, athai or chithappa perippa advise a child now? NO. they think that they are entering in their personal life?!. even the parents of the children do not allow these people to advise or ment when the children go wrong. EXCEPTIONAL PARENTS AND FAMILIES ARE THERE I AGREE. They are very few but most of the families i have come accross are like that only as said above.

No bed time stories, moral stories by grand parents now a days..they are available in the form of cassettes and in the form of books "grannys bed time stories" "nany's moral stories" etc...Most of the grandparents are glued to the TV and quite often there arises a quarrel between grand children and grandparents for channels. And parents are also do not find time to interact with children through stories and tales as both of them are working in most of the families. Bed time stories and stories told during eating strengthen the bond i believe. that care given is more..no depression or mood off for teens.

But now all these have weaned away. So if grand parents do the service whole heartedly and if the youngsters care these GPs well helping them out if they are not able to do all the caring work then there will be amicable situation.after all we cannot afford to loose such bonds.

geeth

Dear Geeth
Thanks so much for stepping here; I found your reply very interesting to read and agree with you that the grand parent influence is slowly being lost.. hope that many more children will enjoy their grandparents in the years to come:)

Originally Posted by anandchitra

Recently a family I know have requested his parents to come to the U.S to baby sit their 2 small children, while both parents worked.Now this trip is a little difficult for his parents as they are in their 60's and 70's and a little strain for them too. Now why would a young couple ask this of their elderly parents? Is this is a case where the parents are not satisfied with what they have and need more? So both parents have to work to fulfill their growing demands as to a bigger house, bigger car, vacations etc.. Now these parents who are travelling are senior citizens. Just when the elderly parents thought they could take a break they are now forced to do more work. They might not mind it as much as its being with their grandchildren but its still work or is it not? If both parents want to work should they not be able to manage these dayto day matters on their own? Calling on elderly parents to help is it an imposition? How do others look upon this. I have seen this scene being played so many times that its very common. But after the work is completed by grand parents, how much time and effort do the children of these elderly parents help with their parents lives? Do they still remain actively involved with their parents or is it just narrowed to a visit here and there? How then will the senior citizens fend for themselves as they grow older? Is this a changing culture that we are witnessing or is this just not as common as I think it is? Do share your thoughts on this topic.

Dear AC,
Nice topic. You have knocked the doors of many a people's homes and minds. It is very strange why we try to get help from elders when we say that we are very self sufficient and we know what is better. I am not against joint family, but I am against that particular fact, of asking the parents to take care of their kids. Yes they have been working all around to take care of their kids, now why put more burden, when they themselves have turned into another kid.

My father pointblanky told me and my brother even before we got married, that you could come and be with us. I am happy that we all are able to live together. But when you come here dont even think of leaving your kids with me and your mom and you could go for work. If you want to work and if you want your kids to be taken care of I dont mind spending for a caretaker maid, and I dont mind paying that maid. But pls dont burden us. We can supervise the maid. We can play with the kids, we can teach them but we cannot run behind them (this happens especially when the kids are very young).

It might sound very harsh, but I appreciate that statement and I have made it a point not to work till my kids grow up. Now my daughter is almost 7 and she is able to take care of most of herself, taking bath, eating, keeping her dresses in her bag etc, etc and now she goes and stays with my parents during holidays and both my parents and my daughter enjoy the change they are getting.

It should always be a pleasure to be with the grandchildren and it should never be a burden. Helping after delivery for a max of 6 months is OK but taking care of the kids till they grow up . Pls parents, whether you are in India or abroad, let us give pleasures to our parents and not burden them.

Dear Rajmi
Your father is a very sensible man to say that and I totally agree thats how it should be. That is just clearly stating the boundary and being clear about it. Nothing wrong at all. Parents have worked all their lives so they too need some time to do what they could not do earlier due to kids etc.

Dear AC,
If GPs are willing and young enough to take of grand kids then there is nothing wrong in babysitting.Otherwise it makes them overtired both emotionally and physically.I have not been in such situation though.If ladies are not supposed to let their child to GPs ,child-care and as such then women cannot come into any field.Like schools,GPs and child-care also are learning institutions.If leaving a child in school is fine then so are the other options..as long as both sides are happy.

Let me not shoot up my BP today

Stupid youngsters.. What goes around, will come around ;)