A Serious Warning Bell This Time - The Monster of Jealousy!

Dear Kamla,
at last one person who shares my understanding of the word 'envy'. I too envy someone for something good or some talent they have, it is in good sense.
Thanks.

Dear Friends,

I have already been accused of being preachy, being long and being generally unreadable. I have been replying to each of your responses individually before moving on to the next thread. But some ILites feel I write my responses in such a way that I always have the last word on the issue. And nobody is in a mood to continue the discussion any further.

So from this time onwards I am giving my responses in a discussion mode. I will just say what I think in response to your queries, some of which are quite profound.

Tell me whether you like this mode of response.

First my thanks to Jothi and Vidhi for reading the post (looks like that requires a lot of patience as I see from another post here; and may be I should start a thread on patience?) patiently and for your nice words.

Thanks Safa for bringing to us the words of the Prophet.

Now for the discussion I am moving over to the next post lest somebody should complain I write looooooooooooooooooooong posts.
sridhar

(It is in discussion mode; so please excuse jumbling of names and arguments)

Vidya, thanks for finding our the error in numbering the supplementary post. Have corrected the error.

Kamla, you made me think quite a lot. Suppose somebody gets something and you feel it is unfair. I am not sure the feeling you have is jealousy. It is the inherent justice in your mind expressing its displeasure. I remember a college-day example. Once the Accountancy Paper (accounts again, excuse me) was very easy. The first mark was 90% shared by some 15 persons in the class. One bright student objected to the standard of the paper. He told the Professor the question paper should not have been so easy. He even suggested a ground rule that 10% of the questions should be so difficult that only the brightest students should be able to solve it. An easy paper like this has abolished the distinction between the brilliant students and the dull ones. We first thought he was jealous as many boys had scored high marks. But then I understood his call for fairness to all. I am sure your feeling is like that.

Let me move over to the next post to make this post short.

Varloo, envy in a good sense... you again made me think. I find it difficult to digest this proposition. I tried hard, believe me. I think what you mean is admiration. That is somebody something very well. And you think, "how nicely has it been done. I would not be able to do this good." Well, that is admiration. But admiration is pure white. And from admiration to envy to jealousy it is a straight road, without any twist or turn. We should be careful with our admiration also. Another difference is that admiration propels us to acquire those skills; whereas envy or jealousy makes us to sabotage others skills or harm them.

To Vidya, again. that was another brilliant point . Self-pity slowly turning into jealousy! Quite possible! And that it is a new dimension. That certainly is something I never expected! You have cautioned others that what may start innocuously like sefl pity might become envy/jealousy! With this observation I need to combine Kamlas unfair observation also. Because between Kamlas experience and your friends experience there is only a slight difference. Kamla says she has the feeling when somebody gets an advantage unfairly; Vidya's friend says that she gets the feeling when she is denied something, which she ought to have got in all fairness. So it is the same feeling, and both of you have gone really deep.
Over to the next post!

I am not sure whether what you people describe is jealousy proper. But that sure is an uncomfortable feeling. And the root cause of that feeling is a sense of entitlement. We always feel that we are entitled to something in life. We have a perception of ourselves, our skills, our qualities, our abilities and we want something in life that is commensurate with them. But that never really happens. Because Life is not fair in the sense we understand life or the concept of fairness.

When we see someone inferior to us climbing up the corporate ladder faster than us, we have this feeling. But we do not know two things - the real worth, the real abilities of that person whom we think is inferior to us. And the real weakness in ourselves, which blocks our superiority.

Life, our difficulties, the diseases we get, the partners we have, our bosses, our maids, our colleagues, friends relatives - all these things are subject to some superior, complex karmic law. To attempt to compress them into our cause-effect rationale is not a wise thing. And these attempts provoke such feelings.
In fine, it is only a sense of entitlement that causes frustration.
I think I have already quoted this example. But let me repeat. This is especially for Kamla, who gets the feeling seeing the "unfairness."
It was in 1983. I was coaching 3 students for ACS exams. They were all clerical staff in the company I worked. (I was a trainee at that time) One of them was especially dull. He will always be smiling. Will never understand or even try to understand what is being taught. The other two were okay. Of the other two one cleared ACS and got a promotion. Another person did not clear the exams but got some raise or another. This dull person continued to be a clerk. Suddenly a foreign collaboration venture came. The American saw all the people and somehow took a fancy for this dullard. This man shot to fame immediately. Promoted as an officer, had a chaffeur-driven car and was travelling in the AC compartment (a luxury those days). I was his co-passenger once and he told all the story.
By a straight calculation life is unfair. But on an overall basis, there is a method in this madness.
have I done justice to your profound questions?
sridhar

I dont think what your uncle had in relation to his pampered son, is jealousy/envy. Even relating the incident to others (with due respects to your uncle) is an expression of pride. People who have come up in their life the hard way usually say things like that more to tell others that they have come up in life.

Rockfeller had to go in a cab once. As he got down he gave a very small tip. The driver protested, "Your daughter tips me ten times more than that."
"Quite possible" quipped Rockfeller, "you see she is a billionaire's daughter; but I am the son of a poor farmer."
sridhar

Dear Sridhar,

I am just enjoying readin all the posts....i was too lazy to let my thought process run on these lines. But all the discussions and thoughts shared by everyone, made me also jot down , what is running in my mind now!

About jealousy , i know it is a very very raw emotion, and the person in the grips of it will not even be able to realise that he or she is jealous....it is such a pure and naked emotion(?) ......i have seen this in a family friend and how the nature of his jealousy spoilt the reputation of this other family friend.....and many of us were also hit by it so badly, and thrown about in its fury....that thinking about it now also gives me the shiver! In fact this was also one of the reasons my mind went blank after reading your first post on this subject! There was no way one could reason with the person, when all of us knew that this was pure jealousy......anyway finally all of us have walked away from this person....i cant even call him to be evil....since he is otherwise sensible! But only till that whole set of actions , events that took place, died a death of its own, could we all heave a sigh of relief.....and that really left me personally with the feeling that i should never get close to anyone, and should maintain a respectable distance!
At this point all i could think of was the depth of emotion, be it in the form of hatred, envy, i dont know what, felt in the heart of the person, going through it and the hormonal changes affecting him or her! Not to mention all the negative energy produced! ( i am student of pranic healing and i fully believe in the role of energy, and chakras).....so there is no wonder that it ogoes hurtling towards the one he targets the jealousy and no wonder the person gets affected, depending on the intensity of negative energy sent, and also depending on the amount of positive energy the target has accumulated!

I agree with Safa , about the evil eye concept, she has put forth and also, how when we feel unsafe in a situation like this, we can always say GOD BLESS THE PERSON! It definetely gives us a feeling of protection .....( i think we have discussed this "evil eye" in the religious thread or something with Chitra....if i remember right!)

Anyway , this was my humble feeling ....and after this i also immediately recognise this feeling, when it rises in me or anyone else in my family.....and i take care accordingly! Well experience really makes us learn a lesson !

Dear Sridhar,

I am a new member of IndusLadies and this is my first post. You have written a wonderful article about jealousy. It is simply superb. I must say that you have a very good understanding of human nature. May I ask for some personal advice to tackle the situation at my home? I can understand jealousy between two people about worldly possessions (property, money etc.), but I cannot understand a situation where a mother is jealous of her own son! Let me explain it further.

I am a working-mother living in Mumbai with my family – husband, 6 yrs old daughter and MIL. My husband is my MIL’s elder son. He works as a senior manager in a reputed bank and I am a software professional working in a private company. My BIL is younger than my husband. He lives in Nagpur (Maharashtra) with his wife, 3yrs old son and my FIL. My BIL has completed Masters in Mech. Engg and he is a full-time student pursuing his Ph.D. since last 1 year. His wife is also studying (M.E. - Electronics) in Nagpur University. They continued their studies even after their child was born. My FIL is a retired vice-principal of a Govt. college and earns monthly pension. He stays with my BIL and takes care of all their expenses using his pension, without saving any money for him or my MIL My BIL does not mind taking help from his father. Since I am working, I requested my MIL to stay with us so that my daughter has company at home when she is back from school. I thought that it would also ease their burden of expenses. In fact we often request our FIL also to stay with us, but he refuses thinking that my BIL would not be able to meet his expenses. The poor old man baby-sits my BIL’s 3 yrs old son for the whole day without any domestic help, when BIL and co-sister go out to their college. In contrast, we have maidservants at home and my MIL has absolutely no work to do as we expect nothing from her other than her love for all of us. I find it really strange to put in words, but my MIL is jealous of my husband – her own son!

She has no appreciation for the kind of hard work that we both do and I have never heard her saying any sweet words even to my husband. She expects us to buy everything in duplicate for my BIL’s family and gets very upset when my husband buys something expensive for him. She did not like it when we purchased our house, car etc. How can a woman be jealous of her son’s success? When my husband buys some new items (dresses, electronic gadgets etc.), I can clearly sense her evil-eye – the way she looks at those things. Her eyes become full of jealousy and anger. On such a day, she throws a lot of tantrums – sobbing, weeping, sitting in a corner, not speaking to anyone etc. This creates a lot of tension at home and my little daughter suffers for no fault of her own. My MIL also gets upset whenever I buy toys/books etc. for my daughter. I make it a point to buy dresses for my BIL’s little son whenever I buy it for my daughter. But I cannot buy everything in duplicate…How can she expect so?

I fully agree with you that our arrogance gives way to jealousy in others. Earlier I made the same mistake. Though I did not directly say anything to her, I unintentionally used to say a lot of things to my daughter – like I used to teach her value of money etc. – and this used to make my MIL upset. I think my pride shows in my body-language. I behave politely but I refuse to behave like a slave. Now my husband has got an overseas posting, which means that we 3 have to move abroad. For this I will have to quit my job and take up a new job over there. I will have to again study a few topics and prepare for interviews. My MIL simply does not want me to pursue my career. She has advised me so for a number of times. Whenever I sit for studying, she starts throwing her tantrums like sobbing, weeping etc. The situation at our home has become worse after my husband’s new posting…it is strange that when our neighbours, friends etc. come to congratulate him, my MIL is totally sad, unhappy and jealous. Please help me tackle this situation. I am very much worried and want to terminate the monster of jealousy in my MIL. I request all ILites to share their views. My apologies for such a lengthy post and thanks a lot for your time.

Regards,
Aasa

Hello Sridhar,

A fantastic analysis of the monster trait - jealousy in humans.
Its surprising that we, humans can be so silly & at the same time dangerously jealous at others. you'd given a list of things people feel jealous about but there are others who are jealous at other's hair, eye lashes, waist, long fingers, height, weight, jealous of the flowers in others garden, even pet, etc. there are some who are so very possessive of their friends that they guard them jealously. one reason, why I'm a little scared and slow in getting close to people.

I think we need to turn the scanner within, fidn the seeds of jealousy & pull it out. reading your posts sure will help us identify this monsterous feeling before it grows into a huge tree with many tentacles.

sometimes, I do feel that insecurity causes jealousy in people. Maybe if we are secure within & outside, we'd be in a better position to control this negative feeling.

I'm still confused about the explanations you gave on the words, ENVY & JEALOUSY. light green OR dark greeen????? not sure still. Envy doesn't sound that very negative but then, after reading your post, not sure - still confused.

so, how many supplementaries did we have this time, Sridhar??? All your replies looked like one, for me. Pls don't stop your Ss. You do come up with some great observations in them.

fantastic analysis; too good a subject to discuss.

Jealous people sure will have a disastrous fate at the end cause it's like a ball of fire that burns inside and will completely destroy them very soon.

Dear Aasa,
I read your post a couple of times. Let me confess at the outset that I am not that competent to dole out solutions that will work out for you. The best I can do is to deepen your understanding of human nature a little bit, and who knows with that increased understanding if you look at your problem, the solution will appear to you. And IL has many great, wonderful ladies who might be of help to you.
A mother, a daughter, a father, a grandmother, for that matter every such relative is ultimately a human being. Aasa we are used to the super-human glorification of women especially while playing the role of mothers, in the popular media. Mother sentiment is the most powerful sentiment in the movie world today. And they to a great extent affect our thinking.
Though I cannot pass any judgment on your case without listening to the other side, I will help you to understand your mil. By the very nature of relationship a mil is jealous of her dil. Normally a mil would have suffered as a dil in those days. When she sees someone who has everything on the platter, her mind may be disturbed. And if the mil does not have sufficient exposure to the outside world, this feeling will be very intense. Jealousy towards her dil might at times manifest as hatred towards her own son. I know a woman, who when she wanted to punish her dil, made her son do all the house work. The dil was devastated on seeing that.

Between a mil and a fil, a fil is normally better (though some ILites have suffered from their fils too) because a fil is exposed to the outside world.

Now that your husband has an abroad posting and you are going to go along with him taking your child with you, there is no need to worry about your mil. Ignore her outbursts. Dont react. But be gentle and firm.

Many Dils have the habit of complaining about their mil to their husband. Yes, it cannot be helped. But you should not make it a practice. And if you complain about 40 things she did, then all of them will get diluted. So just tell the major complaints that too once in a way. Because you should also keep your husband informed.

While you can decide to gift anything to your bils family, dont feel obliged to do so. If you dont like it dont do it.

Aasa a final word of advice. All of us are caught in some type of human relationship or another. We feel that we are chained in a relationship and attempt to break that and get ourselves free. One thing I have learnt the hard way is that you can never go out of any relationship. Ultimately you have to grow out of an relationship. And to grow the first thing that is required is love.

I will tell you the story of my very dear friend. In her early days of marriage she suffered so much from her mil that she used to cry on days for end. Once her brother who came to visit her seeing the treatment meted out to his sister wept openly. At one point of time the mils ill-treatment was even life-threatening for her child.

But she managed everything with an extra dose of love and a super-extra dose of understanding. Today the mil is very old and is living only with this dil. She has ultimately grown out of this relationship. Her sacrfiice and growth is no less than that of a yogi doing penance in the forest. May she live long!

This is the only long term strategy that will work, Aasa.
I am sure all the 3000 plus ILites will join me in praying for a good solution to your problems. You also pray. God is sure to help you. Best of luck,
sridhar