Close [X]
LOG IN
Close [X]
PLEASE LOG IN OR REGISTER

Sorry, you need to be a registered member and logged in to access this page.
Please login or register below.

REGISTER

It's easy, quick and FREE!




Like Tree12Likes
  1. #1
    rissy's Avatar
    rissy is offline Junior ILite
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    City
    somecity
    State
    somestate
    Country
    India
    Posts
    205

    Default Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    I don't know if I am breaking the rules of forum by posting outside link, but this discussion cannot be made possible if members don't refer to this link, so I Kindly request MODERATORS to not delete this link until desirable response is received on this thread. Infact I want opinions of ladies on whatever posted on that link. The link refers to the support of decision of supreme court - Demand for Gift after marriage is not Dowry Says Supreme Court of India

    Pls refer to the link and give your opinons.
    IN SUPPORT OF THE RECENT JUDGMENT OF THE SUPREME COURT OF INDIA

    Now tell me, if in-laws family forcefully demand gifts from daughter in law's parents and if her parents fails to give gifts as per demand, then daughter in law is being harassed by in-laws, but our honorable supreme court says its not crime if in-laws demands gifts. Give your inputs on this.

    pruthvee likes this.

  2. #2
    rissy's Avatar
    rissy is offline Junior ILite
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    City
    somecity
    State
    somestate
    Country
    India
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    Just like there are feminist organisation for protection of women, same way since last few years, many organisations like Save Indian Family has come forward to help the males become victims of false dowry complaints and DV acts. I agree that there might be few ladies who are misusing this laws, but does that mean whole clan of females are misusing this laws. I don't mind if any organisation come forward to help such victims husband and their families but the type of overhype about false dowry cases are done by such organisations is one more way to opress the fight of feminist for women empowerment. This is really sad. And it is more sad that nowadays even genuine feminist are labelled as lesbians, man hating, family breakers etc.

    pruthvee likes this.

  3. #3
    monita is offline Gold ILite
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    City
    ***********
    State
    ******
    Country
    Australia
    Posts
    1,470

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    '... if a daughter-in-law is being harassed for customary gifts by parents-in-law, then they could be booked under ordinary penal provisions but not under the tough anti-dowry laws providing stringent punishments.'

    Isn't that great? When my son gets married, I won't demand any dowry. But when my DiL has a baby, I can harass her for gifts.

    On a more serious note- People will always find a way around the laws and there will always be as many law breakers as there are laws. The anti dowry law has been there for decades. I wonder how many weddings actually happen without dowry. I think the discipline has to come from the people, especially women.

    I don't think we even need a law to control these evil practices. Women have to stand up for themselves. I wonder how many girls themselves say no to dowry. Most girls I know are themselves quite happy to be given away with huge amount of dowry they know their parents have toiled their whole life to accumulate. More than the ILs, I don't understand why these girls have no remorse, no shame and no sense of humiliation that their parents have to suffer just because they have a girl as their child. These days parents spend as much, may be even more on the education of a girl child, then why do they have to give dowry?

    Regarding streedhan, in earlier days, we had the law that all the gifts given to a girl at the time of wedding was to be the girl's property as the girl didn't have any right to her parents' property. But now a daughter has equal right to property as her brothers. Although not many daughters put a claim to this right, the brother still has to go through a huge procedure to acquire the property, getting no objection from the sisters and all the hassles. Basically, changing the law doesn't change our mindset. Even though our laws have become modern, we are still living in ancient times. Many men and women are cunning enough to use the situation to their advantage.


  4. #4
    fencesitter's Avatar
    fencesitter is offline Gold ILite
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    City
    .......
    State
    South Indian state
    Country
    India
    Posts
    1,615

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    If you are worried about society and mindset, yes you have a valid point. If its just about law, then no need to worry, since almost all laws are made which hugely favor wives. You know, when a wife complains of dowry harassment, its not her duty to prove the facts. The onus is on husband and his side to prove that they are innocents. most of the organizations which are fighting against existing dowry laws and domestic violanece laws have significant number of women.

    pruthvee likes this.

  5. #5
    blackbeauty84's Avatar
    blackbeauty84 is offline Gold ILite
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    City
    Chennai
    State
    Tamilnadu
    Country
    India
    Posts
    1,166

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    It's a cheapest form of asking dowry. I have more respect to the person who asks directly than doing all this tauntics.

    pruthvee and riyagan like this.
    I am an incurable optimist!!

  6. #6
    LoveUrLovedOnes is offline Junior ILite
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    City
    Chennai
    State
    Tamilnadu
    Country
    India
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    It is a more diplomatic way of asking dowry.

    pruthvee likes this.

  7. #7
    rissy's Avatar
    rissy is offline Junior ILite
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    City
    somecity
    State
    somestate
    Country
    India
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    Thank u for your responses ladies. This judgement however seems to be 2-3 year old but I come accross this link and read about it. You all agree that asking for gifts which girl's parents are not willing to give and still forcing to give can be surely considered as dowry only. But actually I wanted your opinion on that whatever posted in that link, do you agree with that??

    I posted this yesterday, but later I thought about it, that our supreme court cannot be wrong, our SC has always given best of judgement in the past and there must be something more behind this judgement. If the supreme court given this judgment then there must be some reason and that we can only know if we get full details about the case. But many time media and some organisation print about SC's judgement in a controversial way that many questions arise in people's mind but if we go in the detail then we can come to know about whole truth. The link I posted seems to be some blog or site promoted by some male supporting organisation like Save Indian Family giving a controversial title to the topic of the blog. It is telling that gifts are not dowry, but haven't mentioned full details of case that under which circumstances supreme court given that judgement. By promoting this type of blogs this they want to promote the idea that 97% dowry cases are false, dowry word itself is bogus which is advertised by feminist and there is no such thing like dowry in India, (oh, that means thousands of girls burnt and killed due to dowry is just a illusion -right - sarcasm ofcourse) and that nowadays most of women are out there to destroy their husband and inlaws. If you check the whole write-up in that link and see what provokative words they are writing about feminists.

    pruthvee likes this.

  8. #8
    anonymou is offline Junior ILite
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    City
    austin
    State
    texas
    Country
    India
    Posts
    198

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    I am glad you raised this issue. Since I have read about this judgement, let me help you understand what this judgement does and does not mean.

    No Monita, fortunately you cannot harrass your son's wife to bring gifts using this judgement. The judgement does not legitimize extortion of money or gifts from girl's parents. It only defines which law one can be booked in. It says that for a transaction to be 'dowry' it has to has a link with marriage(for example: if you tell your son's wife that the jwellery given at time of marriage was insufficient that will be penalized under dowry laws, if you tell her that on child birth she needs to bring you a gold necklace that will be penalized under extortion laws). Basically, pressuring someone to cough up money is a crime in itself even without dowry laws. What if your brother puts pressure on you to give money. He can't be booked for dowry, but he would still be booked for extortion. Same with the case of in-laws pressuring for a demand 'not related to' marriage.


    Why is this distinction important: Dowry laws have been made specially stringent as Indian Government wants to curb this practice. As an example, if a married woman dies within 7 years of marriage, prosecution just needs to prove demand of dowry to get husband and inlaws convicted of dowry death. This brings down the bar of prosecution heavily, as in a murder trial one has to prove a lot of things to get a conviction. If we widen the definition of dowry, these laws will bring a lots of injustice(they already are, but it will increase manifold). Consider for example, a perfectly happy family where wife meets an accident within 7 years of marriage. Say also, that on birth of child, girls parents had given a gold bracelet for child. If the bracelet were to be considered dowry the husband and his parents shall be wrongfully convicted for life sentences, guilty of taking dowry just before unnatural death of wife.


  9. #9
    pruthvee's Avatar
    pruthvee is offline New ILite
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    City
    xxx
    State
    yyy
    Country
    India
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    Read the details in link and also read some comments on it. Ofcourse, most men and men's side of family will praise and support this judgement. Because due to strict dowry lows, their pants are on fire. But I don't appreciate this judgement. As OP said, the real motive of SC could be good, but this judgement will increase the loopholes in the judgement system. Because of this people will be encouraged to take dowry after marriage now. This is a wrong signal given by the Apex court. If the demand of gifts is not dowry, then what else is it? Something should be done to get this ruling changed . Post-marriage demands are more crucial than pre-marriage demands. In pre-marriage demands i.e. dowry, the girl still has a choice to search for another mate. But not fulfilling post-marriage demands could become a cause for regular harassment for girls and her parents, which is even worse. It seems to me that the SC ignored the social and cultural structure of our society in the verdict. The intention of the Supreme Court could be noble but it may provide an alternate avenue to the groom's family to extract dowry under the guise of gift. They have now given a free hand to those who already harass the newly wed brides. This judgement is going to have terrible consequences. Why should a woman's family have to give gifts to her husband and in-laws? It is going to become so much more difficult to cleanse our society of the crime against women! This judgement might have not so good consequences. Why should a woman's family have to give involuntary gifts to her husband and in-laws on their demands? Dowry rules should cover any and all demands for money, gifts etc, before, during and after marriage. Obviously, the SC is making one law and breaking another. So now Indian males can get married without dowry and then extort money from the girl's family later under the pretext of customary gifts every now and then. That's very heartening for all those looking forward to the opportunity. Thank you, Supreme Court! This is just what they needed. Now the girl's family can live in life-long bondage and budget and be prepared for the periodic "gifts" that they will have to shower. Does this make Indian society a better place? The judges say " reason replaces subjectivity with objectivity", with which I agree completely. Can someone give me a logic, how and why a "gift" should be demanded? I thought gift was given out of affection or generosity. Forcing a daughter-in-law to get gifts from her parents AFTER MARRIAGE should be considered more terrible crime than demanding dowry. Before marriage you have a choice not to get married to a person demanding dowry before marriage. Asking for gifts after marriage amounts to blackmail. The judges should have seen this

    Funny Truth of Indians:- "Indian Parents always teach their kids NOT to talk to STRANGERS", BUT the funny thing is that,""They strictly support ARRANGE MARRIAGE".

  10. #10
    pruthvee's Avatar
    pruthvee is offline New ILite
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    City
    xxx
    State
    yyy
    Country
    India
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: Ladies - Give your opinion on this - Is demanding gifts isn't dowry?

    Quote Originally Posted by anonymou View Post
    I am glad you raised this issue. Since I have read about this judgement, let me help you understand what this judgement does and does not mean.

    No Monita, fortunately you cannot harrass your son's wife to bring gifts using this judgement. The judgement does not legitimize extortion of money or gifts from girl's parents. It only defines which law one can be booked in. It says that for a transaction to be 'dowry' it has to has a link with marriage(for example: if you tell your son's wife that the jwellery given at time of marriage was insufficient that will be penalized under dowry laws, if you tell her that on child birth she needs to bring you a gold necklace that will be penalized under extortion laws). Basically, pressuring someone to cough up money is a crime in itself even without dowry laws. What if your brother puts pressure on you to give money. He can't be booked for dowry, but he would still be booked for extortion. Same with the case of in-laws pressuring for a demand 'not related to' marriage.


    Why is this distinction important: Dowry laws have been made specially stringent as Indian Government wants to curb this practice. As an example, if a married woman dies within 7 years of marriage, prosecution just needs to prove demand of dowry to get husband and inlaws convicted of dowry death. This brings down the bar of prosecution heavily, as in a murder trial one has to prove a lot of things to get a conviction. If we widen the definition of dowry, these laws will bring a lots of injustice(they already are, but it will increase manifold). Consider for example, a perfectly happy family where wife meets an accident within 7 years of marriage. Say also, that on birth of child, girls parents had given a gold bracelet for child. If the bracelet were to be considered dowry the husband and his parents shall be wrongfully convicted for life sentences, guilty of taking dowry just before unnatural death of wife.
    Mr. Anonymou, Monita is right, there are as many as law, as many law-breakers. Despite of strict law people don't fear to break the law, then think what if this laws are made less strict. Despite of strict laws, how much crime against women has decreased?. Majority of males and orgnisations like save indian family (as mentioned by OP) brags that this type of laws are gender baised, and marital laws should be made for the protection of males too. Then ain't the males misuse those laws. Despite of strict laws if there are husbands and their families who aren't fear to demand for dowry and always find a way to opress the women, then what will happen if male protection laws (in marriage) are sanctioned. Maybe then husband and inlaws will get one more weapon to balckmail the new bride in the pretext of male protecting marital law.

    And I don't agree with you that this laws will bring injustice. For protection of women, strict laws are and always will require. I understood the motive of OP for posting this. She wants to say that nowadays many organisation has come forward to help the victims of misuse of this law, but in the pretext of the help they are also opposing this laws and are advising to remove 498A, also sanction DV act for males too (as if they are abused by wives - lols) infact they are claiming that dowry is a bogus word promoted by feminist, which is utterly a nonsense. I can very well understand why males are opposing this dowry and DV act laws, because they are now NOT getting a priviledge to dominate their wives. If a husband who married an educated women, will have to think twice before raising a hand for slapping his wife, in short he can't take out his frustrations on his wife this days as once upon a time his father and grandfather were doing, so this thing is becoming undigestible and frustrating for males and hence they are opposing this laws in the name of protecting Indian families and blaming this laws and feminist organisation for breaking families. Actually the real reason is that, their asses are on fire due to this laws. They can't now get an opportunity to dominate their wives.

    Last edited by pruthvee; 6th January 2012 at 09:53 PM.
    Funny Truth of Indians:- "Indian Parents always teach their kids NOT to talk to STRANGERS", BUT the funny thing is that,""They strictly support ARRANGE MARRIAGE".

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:29 PM.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283