What place does religion have for you in raising your LO?

unwanted post

Originally Posted by mangaii

Did you guys read the original publication ?
I did'nt find anything concrete in the above link.We don't know what type of input data was used to generate the observation.And I strongly feel we always don't need to follow religion to bring up a child. Believers like me use Religion as a medium to incorporate values to my LO.I think thats not the only way.As I said before my sister who is non-believer has 2 kids and as far as I know they are very disciplined and well mannered kids.But since some of you say you recite shlokas I'm starting to wonder what you guys mean by non-believer .Maybe the definition what I'm thinking and what you guys are referring as non-believer is different I believe.

Thanks
Mangai

I do confuse you, dont I? You were spot on when you say reciting slokas or chanting does help when I feel stressful. There is a lovely metre and when you know the meaning, there is something poetic in it. I guess I could recite "Whose woods these are I think I know... and feel the same way LOL.

Originally Posted by tikka

I do confuse you, dont I? You were spot on when you say reciting slokas or chanting does help when I feel stressful. There is a lovely metre and when you know the meaning, there is something poetic in it. I guess I could recite "Whose woods these are I think I know... and feel the same way LOL.

No Not you Vanathi mentioned she knows more Shlokas than believer thats what I was wondering
Thanks
Mangai

Originally Posted by pavarun

It is indeed disturbing to see the growing conflict all over the world, often in the name of religion. It seems like there is this resurgence of conflict and violence in the international arena - not just in India. While to most of us all this appears irrational and illogical I think it is just a complex issue because of emotions involved and historical undertones/context.

What we can do as parents is to instil values of tolerance, inclusiveness, respect for other ways of life and understanding in our children at a young age.

Again, I have to agree with you. We tell our children who spar constantly not to do so. When someone rakes up something from the past we tell them forget the past... And yet, we will hark back to crusades, talk about Ghazni razing Hindu temples, etc.

After reading all responses, I am beginning to think religion has a role and as parents (possibly responsible ones LOL) we pick the good things around us. Now to get my non-believing husband to get on board with it LOL.

Ansuya: you rock. Mutual backscratching apart , you've such clarity in thoughts and felicity with words. Your posts have me come back and read them again and again. People like you dont let me get comfortable in my ignorance and I have to thank you for that. Are you a writer? Dont mind me if you find me lurking on your other posts LOL.

Originally Posted by mangaii

No Not you Vanathi mentioned she knows more Shlokas than believer thats what I was wondering
Thanks
Mangai

No i didnt say i know more shlokas than believers i only said its amazing how many I know considering that I'm a non-believer (aka as an atheist). Only said that because people normally dont expect people like me to know any religious texts at all but I do know quite a few (not just shlokas btw but lots of Bible verses as well). Knowing them doesnt mean I believe in God or Hinduism nor do I recite them (I know them because i learnt them as a child), so I think our definitions of belief are probably the same Mangai. Is that the question you had or have I misunderstood?

Vanathi.

Hello Krithika
That was a wonderful discussion you have started on religion and how much you can force your kids into it.
No wonder Anandchitra has selected this for the finest post. Which is worth it.
For me my mom is very religious compared to my Dad. We both too pray to a certain extend, I do chant some slokas but not my DH he is not aware of them even telling Gayatri Mantra is difficult to him. My Son to tells many slokas but he never goes and pray to God. As singing other songs he recites these too sometimes. Becoz forcing kids doing what they are not interested or do not want to understand the meaning of them is not correct.
Enjoyed reading your post and the all the fbs great going

Hey there, Krithika

Nothing wrong with forming a two-person mutual appreciation society! Actually, it is always exhilarating for me to meet someone who has a truly open and enquiring mind such as yourself, so it is an absolute delight to read your thoughts.

I meant what I said too, about always questioning everything. It's a healthy way to evolve mentally, but I've noticed that some sectors (not all) of Indian society prefer a more submissive approach to life. It seems to me that many Indians are subjugated on many levels - to their parents, to politicians, to religious leaders or gods, to elders, to in-laws, to their husbands, etc. There is nothing wrong with respecting those institutions, but they too should be held accountable for their actions.

This ensures that everyone always behaves responsibly. There is much truth in the adage about power corrupting, and absolute power corrupting absolutely. Old notions of hierarchy, status, patriarchism, and elitism are somewhat offensive to me. I favour personal rights and responsibilities in creating productive citizens. You seem to be inculcating the right values in your son by teaching him to think, instead of just accept.

I loved what you said about how soothing poetic words can be. You are absolutely right. The power of words transcends religion. I only heard the Gayatri mantra for the first time in my late 20s, and I instantly loved it. I loved the meaning of it, I loved the hypnotic, soothing quality of its cadences, and it did have a powerful if inexplicable effect on my psyche. Yet, like you suspect, I had had exactly the same reaction to many pieces of poetry I had studied or read in my life. So, it is possible to enjoy the positive benefits of these aspects of religion without buying into the more questionable ideologies or practices that may accompany them.

On a more personal note, no, I am not a writer. I am a homemaker who used to be a schoolteacher. I guess the instinct to express myself to an audience still survives, and IndusLadies is my outlet, and a far more appreciative and well-behaved audience than a bunch of rowdy teenagers! I do appreciate your receptiveness to my writing, and I look forward to reading more thought-provoking threads and posts from you.

Ansuya

As a parent, the best thing I can do is to give my children a social and cultural identity which comes from religion. While it is important to impart good habits and discipline to a child, but it is equally important to give them an identity, and for me that identity comes from Hinduism, it can be a different religion/sect or following for others. When one wants solace or mental peace, it is religion that offers the solution. (I am not sure how many remember that the attendance in religious places swelled post 9-11 in the US).

However, what disheartens me is when people want to benefit from the various aspects of Hinduism, but deny the credit it deserves. I read on CNN.com a while ago, where some Christian evangelists did not like the spread of Yoga and the Hindu way of life among Americans and created their own execise routine copying the yoga postures and called it the "Prayer Moves". That there were no takers for it is a different story altogether. Similarly, when you want to benefit from the slokas and chanting, and the mythological stories that is a part of hindusim, but you question the very basis of hinduism, how is it fair? If one wants to enjoy the fruits of a tree, then one should nurture and water the tree, not try to hurt it or chop it down.

This kind of so-called elitist, pseudo-secular attitude only adds to confusion especially when imparted to a young mind and the child will suffer from an identity crisis. Instead of confusing the young mind, focus on imparting the good values mentioned in the religion, be it chanting slokas, narrating mythological stories, saying prayers or meditation.

Regards
Vidya

Hello, Vidya

I respect your opinions, and while my ideas may be different from yours, I hope you'll allow me to explain those differences here. Please keep in mind that I mean no offence to you or other religious people. All I'm trying to do here is present the other side of a very valid discussion that Krithika has started.

I agree that it is important to give your child a social and cultural identity. But I don't think that religion has a monopoly on social and cultural mores. In other words, it is possible to give a child a sense of belonging to a society (and impart the rules of living harmoniously in that society), and a sense of culture, without necessarily using religion as a framework. I see your point about Hinduism providing such a framework - all I'm saying is, religion is just one of many ways a parent can guide their child's development. It is not the only way.

You say:

Originally Posted by vmur

When one wants solace or mental peace, it is religion that offers the solution. (I am not sure how many remember that the attendance in religious places swelled post 9-11 in the US).

This is also a valid point, but again, I'd like to look at the flipside. It was religion that CAUSED 9/11 - religious zealots choosing to express their extremism by killing thousands of innocent people. I agree completely that religion can offer great comfort and solace. But misused, as it so often is, it can also cause great suffering, death, and destruction. And it is simply unacceptable to conveniently ignore that aspect of religion.

You say:

Originally Posted by vmur

... some Christian evangelists did not like the spread of Yoga and the Hindu way of life among Americans and created their own execise routine copying the yoga postures and called it the "Prayer Moves". That there were no takers for it is a different story altogether. Similarly, when you want to benefit from the slokas and chanting, and the mythological stories that is a part of hindusim, but you question the very basis of hinduism, how is it fair? If one wants to enjoy the fruits of a tree, then one should nurture and water the tree, not try to hurt it or chop it down.

I find this attitude a bit puzzling. My understanding of religion (and correct me if I'm wrong here - I'm not an expert) is that ego is generally frowned upon. That is, it's not a competition to see whose religion is the best. So, if a group of Christians "steal" the idea of yoga due to jealousy or other base motives, do we need to become angry about that? I'm sure God is not keeping a scorecard, comparing religious practices and allotting points to those who come up with the most beneficial ones. Pride and "taking credit" for religious practices seem counter-intuitive to the very idea of religion.

Similarly, if I choose to "question the very basis of Hinduism" while still enjoying the Gayatri mantra, how is that unfair? I take from religion what I can use, and disregard those aspects that I find unsavoury or suspicious. Hasn't Hinduism (and other religions) been evolving in that very same way for thousands of years? So, things like sati and other barbaric practices are no longer acceptable, and the subjugation of women advocated in some books of the Bible is now frowned upon. We HAVE to question religion, or the result is things like 9/11 or the Golden Temple Massacre.

It is true, as you say, that a child might become confused if not instructed in religion by his or her parents. But confusion is not necessarily a bad thing - in fact, it is one of the first steps in becoming motivated to educate oneself (like Krithika is confused about how to raise her son in terms of religion, and she is seeking answers here). And a religious child may be just as confused as a non-religious one - to illustrate, I have not yet heard a single reasonable (to my mind) explanation in any religion to the age-old question, "Why does God let bad things happen to good people?".

A lot of the problems I've outlined above are as a result of the way people interpret religion or choose to practise their religion. But we cannot divorce people from religion and consider religion to be some kind of pure, unspoiled entity that exists in a vacuum. People are religious, and religion wouldn't exist without people. People tend to misuse religion (as they misuse many things - it is human nature), and therefore, questioning is good. Otherwise, we cannot progress, and will become helpless victims instead of proactive participants in the courses of our lives.

It is very important to me that the people reading this post understand my motives. I would never criticise or judge someone for being religious. I have many different friends who are devout followers of different religions. All I'm asserting here is one's right (and in my opinion, the necessity) to question one's beliefs. Questioning something does not necessarily devalue it, or show disrespect. In fact, it can lead to greater understanding, tolerance, and acceptance. And those things can never be bad.

Ansuya

Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply.

Let me clarify my thoughts better. At the same time I do not want this to turn into a back and forth where one extensive rejoinder results in an even longer reply from you and degenerates into a shouting match to the detriment of the original question.

I do not agree with your fundamental premise that all religion(s) can be lumped together and then treated as a monolithic entity to which seemingly irreconcilable qualities can be attributed. ( ie when you say "It was religion that CAUSED 9/11 - religious zealots choosing to express their extremism by killing thousands of innocent people...(but)... I agree completely that religion can offer great comfort and solace.")

To be quite direct, Religion1 caused 9/11 and I am speaking up on behalf of Religion2.

I'm not "angry" about some people stealing Yoga - it amused me a lot to see the mental contortions that people are willing to put themselves through to defend the indefensible. Plainly put, it telegraphs an idea that " I acknowledge the benefits of Yoga, but I cannot admit that Hinduism is the fount of something so beneficial - hence I will continue to use Yoga, but just so I can sleep well at night, I'll call it Prayer moves".

Rather than dissect your sentences one by one, I would just want to point out the major disconnect between our lines of reasoning.
I am basically responding to Kritika's post wherein she says "the fact I am questioning Hinduism and perhaps moving away from it .....I feel impelled to question Hinduism now.....even though I keep going back to its scriptures or chant when I feel troubled.(sic)" At best one could characterize the above as plain confusion and more severely as cognitive dissonance. I do not want to pass judgement on anyone here - All I am saying is, one should resolve such confusions as a responsible adult and not pass on the same to children.

I am not saying that Hinduism is the only way, or that I condemn atheism . But this attitude of drawing "selective sustenance" from Hinduism does not seem like a sound message to pass on to the fairly straightforward and impressionable minds of young children. While Krithika ( and yourself for that matter ) may have an advanced, nuanced view on spirituality, IMHO that will elude the grasp of small children such as Krithika's LO.

About your other points such as ego, pride, scorecard, Sati, Golden Temple massacre etc - it really escapes me as to how they are germane to my post and therefore I do not have any comment. If I have not been able to communicate my thoughts by now, I am fairly confident that I will not be able to augment my viewpoint in any way.

I wish everyone good luck in their quest to pass on the best to their LO.