How many of you ???

Isn't it true that a Brahmin is to consider the Vedas as divine-inspired? You seem to suggest the Vedas are life-manuals written by ordinary mortals that need to be updated. In my very humble opinion Vedas are divine-inspired and living texts. Living in the sense they may be appropriately interpreted to suit with the times, but the original verses must remain the same. What seem irrelevant or too difficult will become right and practical when we believe in God!

Also, please remember, we as women play multiple roles. Being a wife is just one of them. We become MIL and SIL to other women. So it is not just giving and sacrificing all your life.

 

Ok i am sorry I misunderstood.I am not sure why that statement sounded rude to you it was not meant to be offensive in any way.I was not commenting on the book,as you said I have no right to argue if I have not read it.I just replied to OP who stated that "Vedas are knowledge" and are supposedly flawless and there are vows not just for wife but husband too.

I have to quote this(thanks to vedic knowledge I have gained from swamiji)

These very verses give man and man's family upperhand in our culture.Do these verses scream equality to you?Why does the bride has to be given away by her dad as a gift and why does she have to offer herself to her husband.Had the vedas placed emphasis solely on man-woman union,instructions to both of them on how they should love and care each other,how they are now seperate from their families but will continue to respect and take care of both the parents equally,how to be responsible parents and bring up their chilren....Maybe then our society will be free of dowry problems,female infanticide,in law issues and most of all abusing girl and her parents in the name of tradition andddd according to what vedas has prescribed.

 

It is shame that in the 21st century people still talking about caste system.

This is what I learned about women and marriage in vedic times:

Women & Marriage

Eight types of marriage were prevalent in the Vedic age, of which four were more prominent. The first was 'brahma', where the daughter was given as gift to a good man learned in the Vedas; the second was 'daiva' , where the daughter was given as a gift to the presiding priest of a Vedic sacrifice. 'Arsa' was the third kind where the groom had to pay to get the lady, and 'prajapatya', the fourth kind, where the father gave his daughter to a man who promised monogamy and faithfulness.

In the Vedic age there was both the custom of 'Kanyavivaha' where the marriage of a pre-puberty girl was arranged by her parents and 'praudhavivaha' where the girls were married off after attaining puberty. Then there was also the custom of 'Swayamvara' where girls, usually of royal families, had the freedom to choose her husband from among the eligible bachelors invited to her house for the occasion.


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Talk about respect to women. No wonder men think they can do whatever and women had no say.

P.S Its not to say that other religion are any better when it comes to women's rights

 

Oh Snm...Where do I begin...Please dont tear verses out of context...they have to be understood in totality.

Do not confuse the convenient interpretations that people have made of vedic mantras over the years to suit their selfish needs with the divine mantras themselves.

Dharmecha, Arthecha, Kamecha, Mokshecha imaam naaticharami
Dharmecha, Arthecha, Kamecha, Mokshecha imam naaticharami

In my duty, in my financial commitments, in my needs and even in quest for moksha I will stand by you /not violate u in any way(it can be interpreted both ways).

The first oath is taken by the groom and the second by the bride respectively thrice.

If this is not equality what is?

Mangalya daram is actually not a part of vedic marriage. It came much much later.
It needs a post by itself....some other day...

Pani grahanam SaptaPadi and Kanya danam are ...
Let me go one by one

Gribhnamite suprajaa stvaya hastam mayaa patyaa jaradashtirya thasah
Bhago Aryamaa savitaapuram dhirmayam twa durgarha patyaaya devah ||
(
“Oh dear! I take your hand in mine..... be with me as a fortunate partner for a very long time. I hand over control of my home in your hands, discharge
your duties joyously.”)

What is unfair about this? Isnt this what every young bride wants?(The queen of her beloveds home )

Saptapadi

(Ref: Meaning of Saat Phere – Hindu Wedding (saptapadi) | Kangan Films Blog)
Too much to type and reasonably good translation of Saptapadi so pasted for ur ref.

First Step – invoke the Gods or plenty of pure and nourishing food

Bridegroom says:

Om esha ekapadi bhava iti prathaman

“My beloved, our love becomes firm by your walking one step with me. You will offer my food and be helpful in every way. I will cherish you and provide for your welfare and happiness and also that of your children.”

Bride says:

Dhanam dhanyam pade vadet

“I humbly submit to you, my lord. Kindly give me the responsibility of the home, food and finance. I promise you that i shall fulfill all responsibilities towards the welfare of the family and the children.
Second Step – the couple prays to the Gods to give them the mental, physical and spritual strength to lead a healthy life.

Bridegroom says:

Om oorje jara dastayaha

“My beloved, now you have walked the second step with me. Fill my heart with strength and courage and together we shall protect the household and the children.”

Bride says:

Kutumburn rakshayishyammi sa aravindharam

“My lord, in your grief, I shall fill your heart with courage and strength. In your happiness , I shall rejoice, I promise you that I will please you always with sweet words and take care of the family and the children. And you shall love me and me alone as your wife.”
Third Step – preserving wealth and prosperity in life.

Bridegroom says:

Om rayas Santu joradastayaha

“My beloved, now you have walked three steps with me. By virtue of this, our wealth and prosperity are going to grow. I shall look upon all other woman as my sisters. Together, we will educate our children and may their live long.”

Bride says:

tava bhakti as vadedvachacha

“My lord, I will love you with single minded devotion as my husband. I will treat all other men as my brothers. My devotion to you is that of a chaste wife. This is my commitment and pledge.”
Fourth Step – couple invoke the Gods for attainment of happiness and harmony by mutual love and trust in all walks of life.

Bridegroom says:

Om mayo bhavyas jaradastaya ha

“My beloved, it is a great blessing that you have walked four steps with me.You have brought auspiciousness and sacredness into my life. May we be blessed with obedient and noble children. May they live long.”

Bride says:

Lalayami cha pade vadet

“My lord, I will adorn myself from head to toe with sandalwood paste and fragrance for your sake. I will serve you and please you in every way I can.”
Fifth Step – They pray for the welfare of all living beings in the Universe and pray for virtuous, noble and heroic children.

Bridegroom says:

Om prajabhyaha Santu jaradastayaha

“My beloved, now that you have walked five steps with me, you have enriched my life. May God bless you. May our loved ones live long and share in our prosperity.”

Bride says:

Arte arba sapade vadet

“My lord, I will share your joys and sorrow. Your love will make me trust and honour you. I will carry out all your wishes.”
Sixth Step – They ask the Gods to give them a joyous life together.

Bridegroom says:

“My beloved, you have filled my heart with happiness walking six steps with me. May you fill my heart with joy and peace at all times and season.”

Bride says:

Yajna home shashthe vacho vadet

“My lord, in all acts of righteousness, in material prosperity in all enjoyment and divine acts, I promise you I will participate and I shall always be with you.”
Seven Step – the couple prays for understanding, companionship, loyalty and unity.

Bridegroom says:

Om sakhi jaradastayahga

“My beloved, as you walked the seven steps with me, our love and friendship became eternal. We experienced spritual union in God. Now you have become completely mine and I offer my life to you. Our marriage will be forever.”

Bride says:

Attramshe sakshino vadet pade

“My lord, as per the law of God and the Holy Scriptures, I have become your spouse with the taking of the seventh step. Whatever promises we gave, we did so with a pure mind. We will be truthful to each other in all matters. We will love each other forever.”

After the seven steps ...here is what the bridegroom says....



"Sakaa Sapthapadha bhava
Sakaayov Saptha padhaa Bhaboova
Sakyam the Ghame'yam
Sakyaath the' Maayosham-
Sakyan me' Maayosta -

You have walked seven steps with me; be my friend.May you not part from my friendship.

This is again recited by the groom....

dhyowraham Pruthivee thvam
Retho' aham retho' Bhruthvam
Manohamasmi vak thvam
Saamaa ham asmi Rukthvam
Saamaam Anuvradhaa -bhava

I am the sky and you are the earth. I am the giver of energy and you are the receiver. I am the mind and you are the word. I am music and you are the song . You and I follow each other.
Again recited by the groom

Can anything be more beautiful than these vows (even when much is lost in translation )


To understand the full import of kanya danam..u have to understand the mantra

The bridegroom is SrimanNarayana

Namostu anantaya sahasramurtaye
Sahasrapadakshi shira uru bahave
sahasranamne purushaya shashvate
sahasrakoti yuga dharine namah

The bride is none another than MahaLakshmi...


The father of the bride ..at that moment considers his son-in-law as Sri Maha Vishnu and his daughter as Mahalakshmi and gives away the daughter.

Kanyam Kanaka Sampannam kanakabharanairyutham, Dashtami Vishnave Thubhyam Brahmaloka Jigeeshiya.

It is important to understand that the father of the bride washes the feet of Vishnu and not the man who is the SIL....I dont know how to explain it....I could only feel it when my dad did it. There was no shame, no pride, no compulsion ..there was no self at that point..just divinity..tears rolled down both my husbands and my fathers eyes as the priest explained the meaning . Its an act of extreme love and that it has been twisted and women treated so cruelly citing this as a reason is a shame .

Its good to have these discussions....and we all learn a lot from each other on this forum....Just let them be productive is my humble request.

I would love to hear more from others and esp from Swamiji and other senior posters..who rarely visit the IL rel-forum.

 

Diva...u are confusing marriages that existed with marriages that were recommended and the marriage ritual itself.
There were 8 identified and only a few recommended.
They have been organized in the order of recommendation...
Starting from the Brahmana type at one end and the paisaca at the other.(strongly forbidden)

And ur interpretation of Daiva Vivah is completely wrong(thats why u need a guru )
The correct interpretation of Daiva is

( The girls parents go looking for a groom in a place where
a sacrifice is being performed under the guidance of a priest)
as against the brahmana vivah where the groom comes seeking the bride.
In the order of recommendation Daiva is actually inferior.
And is recommended after a certain length of time passes by and the girl gets no suitors.
In both there is strictly no financial transaction.

Even lower and not recommended is the Arsha and Prajapatya.

RAkshasa and Paisacha are actually forbidden.


At this point I dont see a desire to learn and the thread will go where typically most go.....so shall retire from the thread.

 

If this is not equality what is?

I dont know how others feel, but I felt ashamed when my father was asked to wash my husbands feet. My husband felt uncomfortable with this concept and immedietly told not to follow that. Since my husband is a male(Maapilai), everyone will accept if he says not to follow certain rituals. Our marriages **********
I humbly submit to you, my lord. Kindly give me the responsibility of the home, food and finance. I promise you that i shall fulfill all responsibilities towards the welfare of the family and the children.
Second Step – the couple prays to the Gods to give them the mental, physical and spiritual strength to lead a healthy life.
This does'nt show equality. These marriages are male chauvenistic. We are not sure whether todays marriage rituals are 100% followed only from vedhic source. These are all manipulations and comfortably followed.

 

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