Dead or Alive-Dilemma

Way back in sixties, as a medical officer in the casualty department of Govt General hospital, there were occasions when I had the unpleasant job to convey to the parents the loss of life of their loved ones in accidents, when death was diagnosed only in casualty.
Mostly we relied on absence of heart sounds, cessation of respiration and pupillary signs to ascertain death. Advances in resuscitation and life supports have revived the still hearts and enabled respiration. We also hear about “Brain dead” individuals and patients in a vegetative state kept alive with art of state machines for many days while doctors are hesitant to tell the relatives whether he will survive or not. Diagnosis of death has become more complicated. Occasionally we hear of stray cases where the live have been declared dead. Does any one know of an occasion where the really dead came back alive in real life situations?
Nowadays every dead person must carry a death certificate to his last place of rest as otherwise there will be no admission there.

Gopalan

Mr. Gopalan,

Yes I do have come accross " miracles " .. There was this frend of my dad who was riding a scooter , on his way to my house.. suddenly felt a shooting pain on the back of his head. He stopped the scooter and sat on the pavement. A passrby came to help and called the ambulance. He went into coma very soon.. Doctors diagnosed he was brain dead for the period. They said he can survive if something miraculous happend. They could take the ventilation off if his wife agreed. She said no ! My mom is a very pious lady. His wife wanted my mom to come over and pray for him sitting next to him. My mom did and I believe that prayers are nothing but positive vibrations for ourselves and for the people around us. She went there religiously and never gave up just like the uncle's wife.. His sons had given up totally. This went on for 22 days and you wont believe we got a call on one tueday night that he had come out of coma.. gues what the first and second things were that he asked for soon after talking to his wife...First, the news paper and secnd .. to meet my dad.. This really touched all of us soo much.. both by means of " willingness to live " and
" friendship " !! We did go and see him later in the ICU.. but the next time I saw that uncle was walking upto me to the stage on my wedding reception. Though he has a facial paralysis on one side and needs a very minimal support to walk .. he was all fine to say
" God bless you both, dear " !! Ironically, uncle's name is Gopal .. :)

This happened long back...

An uncle of mine named "Lamani" had shifted base from Dubai to Belgaum. After a few months of settling there, we heard the news that he met with an accident & had passed away shortly. We all were in shock... even tellin that death often calls people to their place of death, no matter where they are. Couple of months passed by, another uncle had been to Lamani uncle's house in Belgaum to meet uncle's wife. He got te shock of his life when he saw Lamani uncle coming out from his room .

We all had a hearty laugh after hearing that in Belgaum there are many people with the surname Lamani, & some one must have got confused.

Originally Posted by Drpreethis

Mr. Gopalan,

Yes I do have come accross " miracles " .. There was this frend of my dad who was riding a scooter , on his way to my house.. suddenly felt a shooting pain on the back of his head. He stopped the scooter and sat on the pavement. A passrby came to help and called the ambulance. He went into coma very soon.. Doctors diagnosed he was brain dead for the period. They said he can survive if something miraculous happend. They could take the ventilation off if his wife agreed. She said no ! My mom is a very pious lady. His wife wanted my mom to come over and pray for him sitting next to him. My mom did and I believe that prayers are nothing but positive vibrations for ourselves and for the people around us. She went there religiously and never gave up just like the uncle's wife.. His sons had given up totally. This went on for 22 days and you wont believe we got a call on one tueday night that he had come out of coma.. gues what the first and second things were that he asked for soon after talking to his wife...First, the news paper and secnd .. to meet my dad.. This really touched all of us soo much.. both by means of " willingness to live " and
" friendship " !! We did go and see him later in the ICU.. but the next time I saw that uncle was walking upto me to the stage on my wedding reception. Though he has a facial paralysis on one side and needs a very minimal support to walk .. he was all fine to say
" God bless you both, dear " !! Ironically, uncle's name is Gopal .. :)

Dr Preeti,
Generally I do not believe in miracles. Magic is many a time passed as miracle. Since you have witnessed a miracle, I think all said and done prayers do seem to have the healing power of the Unknown. You are lucky to have visualised one. The name commonality is an indication for me to believe in miracles and not pooh pooh that.

Gopalan.

Originally Posted by gopalan1937

Way back in sixties, as a medical officer in the casualty department of Govt General hospital, there were occasions when I had the unpleasant job to convey to the parents the loss of life of their loved ones in accidents, when death was diagnosed only in casualty.
Mostly we relied on absence of heart sounds, cessation of respiration and pupillary signs to ascertain death. Advances in resuscitation and life supports have revived the still hearts and enabled respiration. We also hear about “Brain dead” individuals and patients in a vegetative state kept alive with art of state machines for many days while doctors are hesitant to tell the relatives whether he will survive or not. Diagnosis of death has become more complicated. Occasionally we hear of stray cases where the live have been declared dead. Does any one know of an occasion where the really dead came back alive in real life situations?
Nowadays every dead person must carry a death certificate to his last place of rest as otherwise there will be no admission there.

Gopalan

Medical teams around the world have been conducting experiments with patients about their near death experience. Seems there is a space above or below where the dead abide. Hindu dated 3rd Oct 08 reports on this The Hindu : Front Page : Unlocking ‘out-of-body’ mysteries

Lakshmi

Dear Gopalan

I know that this a serious subject, but the below lines quoted by you remind me of a humorous incident.

Many years ago when I was working for an Indian Public sector undertaking, the company had a system ,where the retired staff could come to the office on the first of every month and collect their pension. Along with the usual identification, they also needed to provide a "Alive certificate",every month, from a competent medical authority, confirming that they were alive .Presumably , this would prevent fraudulent payments to non-existing pensioners.

Once a pensioner was unable to report in January and came in February to collect both Jan and Feb payments. On being questioned by the cashier for his " alive certificate", he produced one, dated February 01st. The cashier did not pay the Jan pension since the pensioner had no certificate for Jan.The cashier's argument was " You have proof that you are alive in Feb, but where is the evidence that you were alive in Jan ? Hence I cannot pay you the Jan pension !

Regards.


Nowadays every dead person must carry a death certificate to his last place of rest as otherwise there will be no admission there.

Gopalan[/quote]

Dear Dolorcosta,

Enjoyed your real life humor on the serious subject. Many a time I am approached by the relatives of the dead for issue of a death certificate because they were not able to get one from some other doctors whom they approached on the ground that they did not treat the patient when he was alive or they were not witness to his death. I can understand doctor’s reluctance because at times there is a possibility that unnatural death might be recorded as death under normal circumstances believing the false history provided by the relatives of the dead fearing police intervention. (e.g.; suicide, poisoning, assault etc)

Some of the doctors have been involved in litigations for having issued death certifications without knowing the facts of the case. I always help others after ensuring that no mystery surrounds the death. Excepting the extremely young and extremely old, death of others must be viewed with suspicion if you have not been witness to his or her death

Read my dilemma in Diagnosing death : Diagnosing death, mayakunar blogs on sulekha, Miscellany blogs, mayakunar blog from india

Gopalan

Originally Posted by dolorcosta

Dear Gopalan

I know that this a serious subject, but the below lines quoted by you remind me of a humorous incident.

Many years ago when I was working for an Indian Public sector undertaking, the company had a system ,where the retired staff could come to the office on the first of every month and collect their pension. Along with the usual identification, they also needed to provide a "Alive certificate",every month, from a competent medical authority, confirming that they were alive .Presumably , this would prevent fraudulent payments to non-existing pensioners.

Once a pensioner was unable to report in January and came in February to collect both Jan and Feb payments. On being questioned by the cashier for his " alive certificate", he produced one, dated February 01st. The cashier did not pay the Jan pension since the pensioner had no certificate for Jan.The cashier's argument was " You have proof that you are alive in Feb, but where is the evidence that you were alive in Jan ? Hence I cannot pay you the Jan pension !

Regards.


Nowadays every dead person must carry a death certificate to his last place of rest as otherwise there will be no admission there.

Gopalan

[/quote]

Dear Gopalan

Thanks for yr comments.

You seem an extremely knowledgeable person on this subject and I bow down to your superior wisdom.

Thanks and regards.

Dear Sir,

Read thru your writing. Lovely.. It reminded me off my internship too ! Though we as Dentists did not have night calls very often it gushed me enough. Rightly said, we as doctors have ' no right ' to be emotional about anything.. Be it an emergency or an announcement of death . We need to have a straight face no matter what. The patients consider us next to God when they are in pain and the slightest of apprehension on our face either fails us as doctors or they lose hope and shatter. Though not during the course study we are automatically taught to change our personalities.. I sometimes think how.. But I always believed we were chosen to become doctors by GOD and destiny to help people as HE wanted them to be re-assured HE does care !! Thank you for re-kindling my memories !!