Delhi gang rape and attitudes toward women

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Absum, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Absum

    Absum Silver IL'ite

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    Mahatma Gandhi said, "If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do.”

    This is often expressed, apocryphally, as his "Be the change..." quote. I think these words are especially appropriate in the context of the furore over the Delhi gang rape.

    There is an entire spectrum of dishonourable, diminishing, denigrating behaviour against women in India. It exists within individuals, families, communities, societies, and is even present in discriminatory laws and customs that a lot of people don't seem to notice or mind.

    It can be as "mild" as a mother-in-law verbally abusing her daughter-in-law (just because she can) or as terrible as gang rapes. I find the term "eve-teasing" particularly offensive, and a good illustration of the rather relaxed attitude towards the bad treatment of women. Why sugar-coat something as heinous as sexual harrasment by giving it such a playful name?

    Horrible events such as these do not arise out of a vacuum. They are the result of firmly entrenched mores and values that reflect a basic belief; women are inferior, and some women are more inferior than others (e.g. women of lower castes, women who have the temerity to be out at 9pm with a male companion, women who have invited trouble by taking a bus at night).

    Until this basic belief is banished, none of these evils will be. I find the wild keening and wailing for the death penalty, for the government to do something, for the "incompetent" Delhi police police force to atone for their sins, to be quite ironic, even laughable (not that any humour can be found in this tragic situation).

    When you try to solve a problem of this sort with capital punishment, punitive measures, stricter policing, all it teaches criminals is not to get caught, or else. Instead, how about teaching every person, man, woman, and child, to treat women properly? Instead of meeting violence with more violence, how about finding humane solutions that move towards a more morally evolved society, not a lesser one?

    So, the next time you find yourself snickering at a woman with dark skin, or tut-tutting in private sympathy when a couple has a daughter instead of a son, or turning a blind eye when a woman is groped on a bus, or teaching your daughter to behave demurely and not to attract too much attention, or encouraging your daughter-in-law to obey her husband without question, or trying to find a husband for your daughter based on his money, good looks, and social status instead of character, or encouraging your sister to stay with her husband, even if he hits her, because of the shame of divorce, ask yourself how this kind of thinking feeds into the general, collective attitude towards women that manifests, in its most brutal form, in the kind of crime that has shocked us all, but really shouldn't, all things considered.

    And then be the change that you want to see in the world.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
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  2. Padmash

    Padmash Platinum IL'ite

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    "Change" is never going to happen.. this "change" is taking more brutal form as much as people are getting more educated. Higher the knowledge higher the level of crime, be it towards women or society.

    This "change" should be with the government. If you want to make the country desciplined "change" your law and be stricter and faster in punishing the criminal.

    Few countries which have stricter rules towards rape and other social crimes, we can see hardly any rape case. May be we can say women surrender easily in those countries for money or anything but still there is no rape case.
    "When you try to solve a problem of this sort with capital punishment, punitive measures, stricter policing, all it teaches criminals is not to get caught, or else."
    Even if corrective punishment is there they will hide so that they can continue with their life in the same way as they had.
     
  3. Loving2011

    Loving2011 Silver IL'ite

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    I agree with this post wholeheartedly.

    One question I have is: Why some Indians get so offended or defensive when the topic of women is brought up? It's not just the men, but even some of the older female posters on Indus ladies forum. It's as if they are in complete denial of all of the atrocities happening in our culture. Given all of these gang rapes happening, how can you not realize that there's a problem on how our women and kids are treated?

    The first step to getting rid of a problem is to ACKNOWLEDGE it. If people are going to look the other way, silence those that want to speak up, and continue to act as if our culture is perfect, we're not going to change anything soon.

    I'm at the point where I think it's dangerous to bring up these issues to certain Indians, because I know they will jump down my throat and make me feel crazy. It's very disturbing to see other people just blow off and dismiss an evil man's behavior. I find that the people who look away and let other women/children suffer are just as bad as these rapists that commit these crimes.
     
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  4. Absum

    Absum Silver IL'ite

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    Loving, you raise a useful issue below. Thank you for really understanding the point of my post.

    This kind of behavior is endemic in Indian communities. I find it especially harmful when it comes to sexual abuse of children by family members. I know of three Indian families who harbor a sexual predator in their midst - male family members who have sexually abused children. It is an open secret, and there is a conspiracy of silence maintained around the whole issue. The girls who have been abused are made to feel like somehow it is their fault. Even more disturbing is the fact that two of these men have gone on to molest girls from the younger generation of the families.

    Do you know families like this? Why are the mothers, sisters, aunts, elders not doing anything significant to protect their girls? Why do we not teach our children that sometimes, often, adults are also wrong in their thoughts and behavior? Why do we not equip our children with tools to recognize when someone is taking liberties with them, even if that person is someone they're supposed to respect and obey?

    So, as Loving illustrates, failure to act and acknowledge leads to a perpetuation of these crimes against women and children. And these atrocities are not confined to slums and tenements as some of the more smugly class-conscious among us would have us believe.

    If anything good comes out of the Delhi gang rape, it will certainly not be the murder of the ingrates who committed this crime. One of India's first orders of business should be to de-stigmatize conversations and attitudes about sex and sexuality. Accept that human beings are animals (in a good, biological way) and will have normal instincts and desires.

    Do not put women into two neat categories; either she's the Madonna, or she's the Whore. Stop telling your sons to see all women as his sisters. They are not; it must be incredibly confusing for a young man (and for young women, too) to be made to feel guilty for having normal feelings regarding sex and sexuality. Let young people associate with other young people of both sexes. It's vital for adolescents to learn to relate to the opposite sex as real people, not mysterious forbidden fruit.

    We need to move away from an outdated, irrelevant, repressed attitude towards human sexuality and accept it for what it is. Then, people will be able to make better sense of their feelings and urges. This does not mean that we should encourage young people to behave in sexually precocious ways. It means we need to provide healthy discourse and outlets for the energies and feelings that, when perverted through suppression, may manifest as rape, pedophilia, sexual harassment, and all the other evils we've been discussing.

    Much sexual violence is not about sex, but about power. So do not discount, also, how related social customs and attitudes like patriarchy and misogyny feed into this downward spiral of crimes against women and children. We dote on the male members of our families, and relegate the females to second-class citizenship, at our peril.

    I agree with Loving that these are not issues that some of our elders want to discuss, or even hear. But their hostility to these ideas is irrelevant. As you can see, it is becoming a matter of life and death whether we educate our children well, or only according to traditions. Accept that we live in the 21st century, and accept that the world is changing in ways we cannot fathom. We need to change, too.
     
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  5. coolwinds

    coolwinds Platinum IL'ite

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    three families?! and have you done something with this knowledge? it's still going on?!!
     
  6. Loving2011

    Loving2011 Silver IL'ite

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    Absum,

    Yes, I do know families where sexual abuse is hidden under the rug. It's not just an Indian issue, but it occurs in a lot of Western families too. I was discussing with a few friends on how some kids don't properly learn what sexual consent is or that it's wrong for someone to pressure you into sex. These same kids become adults that are stuck in abusive relationships or have a distorted view on sex. Some parents feel that kids should learn about sex on their own, but I think this is dangerous. Educating people about healthy sex doesn't mean that people will become promiscuous, as you said.

    Proving rape and sexual abuse in court, even in American courts, can be difficult. I've known instances where sexual abusers were let go, due to a lack of evidence. I've also known victims to be humiliated in court by the defense lawyers. I've known cases that have gone on for years, where it's draining to the victim.
     
  7. Loving2011

    Loving2011 Silver IL'ite

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    May I add for parents to not assume that your son automatically knows how to treat women, or that your daughter will know how to defend herself against bad men. When I have kids, I hope to educate them on how it's wrong to force someone into sex and that they must respect the word "no." Likewise, I would tell my kids that they shouldn't feel obligated or guilted o give someone sex.

    When I see how certain people act in regards to sex and dating, I start to wonder if their parents ever taught them anything? Devaluing women or not recognizing their voice has to be some kind of learned behavior?
     
  8. Vinings

    Vinings Gold IL'ite

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    You know there is abuse going and have you done anything?
     
  9. sdiva20

    sdiva20 Platinum IL'ite

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    @Loving- you are so right about us Indians not even acknowledging problems in our society.We go around being smug about our so- called superior culture refusing even to discuss all the ills in our society. The total concept of sex is perceived as something either dirty or as a favor to their husbands. Some women especially betray shocking ignorance about sex even when they are either about to or already married. Is it possible that centuries of sexual supression has lead to women of even today's generation repress their sexual desires? Men can have pre, post, extra marital or non- consensual sex and society dismisses it as man being animal of baser instincts. I believe, man or woman- every human being has baser instincts but refinement and decency makes us understand the difference between right and wrong behaviour.

    Rape has very little to do with sex specifically. It has to do with power, dominance, revenge, mysogyny, superiority.

    For anything to change in our society, change should start at home- from fathers and mothers welcoming a girl or boy with equal love, understand that both go through changes- physical and emotional in teenage years and its normal part of growing up, teach sons to respect every women- mother or the lady who cleans their home, encourage daughters stand up for themselves, develop their confidence so that they can realize their tremendous capabilities, encourage our daughters ambitions just as much as the son's. I think the most important lesson parents can reach their daughters is to question status- quo instead of just accepting the established norms.

    It becomes that much more important for our generation to teach our kids the right way so that change can slowly seep into our society.
     
  10. Vinings

    Vinings Gold IL'ite

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    After reading all these threads on how the husband treats the wife, problems in marriage, respect between husband and wife, I have more respect and appreciation for my husband.
     
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