English Matters

Dear Ansuya and friends

Americans could be baffled by the usage of the expression 'passing out'.

For eg. I recently recd. an e-mail invitation from a charity organization based in India. It read like this:

We have great pleasure in inviting you for the passing out ceremony of students of the 17th batch.

Graduation is the word generally used here for 'passing out'. If someone were to hear the word 'passing out', they would probably think it is some medical emergency as 'passing out' means loss of consciousness, fainting or dizziness.

Usha,

I have never come across 'passing out' as a formal phrase used for graduation in India though I have seen 'passed out' to imply go successfully through a test.I thought 'graduation' is in vogue now but I reckon English has branched into several dialects within India.

I agree with you, passed out and celebration together would freak out anyone here.

Originally Posted by padmasrinivas

Hi Rama,

Every time I visit the US, I have to train myself to speak slowly to be understood by the Americans. I feel that we Indians do speak very fast, even if we try to use an American accent for words like can't, dance, etc., most natives of the US do have problems!

LnBBHs,
Padma

Padma, even I have realized that Indians tend to speak very fast.Initially when I came to London I had to deliberately slow down the pace to match with my friends.I guess this is again because of the influence of our native language.

Padma

I did discuss the issue of British versus American spelling in this post

English Matters

Let me know if you need anything further, and I'll be happy to explain if I can :)

I speak fast too, and I don't even speak any Indian languages! I think it may be a bit of an Indian trait that we have, no matter where we're from. Also, I feel that I don't really listen sometimes, and need to remind myself to slow down and really concentrate on what the other person is saying instead of just planning what I'm going to say next. There's also my propensity to interrupt people when they're talking, which I'm working on ridding myself of! So, I have many "bad" habits in addition to speaking too fast :)

Sundarusha

Thanks for the "passing out" discussion. You're right, this was a foreign phrase to me when I moved to India, but I figured out quickly from context that it didn't always mean "lose consciousness" as I thought it did! In South Africa, we say "graduate" and "pass a test". It's quite remarkable how the addition of a little preposition can change the whole meaning. If we think about it logically, "pass out of school" is probably what is meant, and how it came to be used as a phrase in India for "graduate". But when the "of school" bit is left out, it can become a little ambiguous.

Srama

As usual, you have raised many worthy points for discussion. I appreciate your enthusiasm, as always :)

I think you can use "fully" as you express it - to mean the same as "completely". If we consider the following example

I understood the concept fully once he had explained it to me

I understood the concept completely once he had explained it to me

it doesn't seem there's a significant difference in meaning between the two words or sentences.

I'm not sure if I've understood you correctly, but are you asking me about tenses in your "I am wondering about the usage of the word..." example? If you are, this is one of the most complex issues in grammar, for first and second-language speakers of English alike. Without going into too much detail until I know exactly what you are asking, I would say both examples you give could be right.

I am wondering about....

I was wondering about...

although they have slightly different implications as to timeframe - the first phrase implies an ongoing process, while the second implies something that went on for some time in the past but is now over. In this context, I would probably pick the first one to use, because it's something that's still bugging you (you're STILL wondering about it), hence your seeking an answer for it.

I hope this has helped :)

Ladies

I am enjoying the personal anecdotes and other English-related discussions going on here, with and without my participation. Be as free as you want in introducing and discussing topics. Like I said before, we're trying to cover as wide a range of English usage issues as possible, not just grammar and spelling and mechanics. I welcome the culturally-inclined discussions, and those related to speech and society, like accents.

Thanks for enriching my experience of IL as much as you have all done in this thread. I am truly grateful.

I speak fast too, and I don't even speak any Indian languages! I think it may be a bit of an Indian trait that we have, no matter where we're from. Also, I feel that I don't really listen sometimes, and need to remind myself to slow down and really concentrate on what the other person is saying instead of just planning what I'm going to say next.

That is a trait I am guilty of too and am working on it as well - I am also apalled when I switch off sometimes and have to make efforts.

On a lighter note, this month's Reader's digest has this to say about talking and listening - "The opposite of talking is not listening. The opposite of talking is waiting". Looks like this is an universal trait!

Ansuya, I indeed want to know about the tenses....if it is not too much.

I'm not sure if I've understood you correctly, but are you asking me about tenses in your "I am wondering about the usage of the word..." example? If you are, this is one of the most complex issues in grammar, for first and second-language [COLOR=green! important][COLOR=green! important]speakers[/COLOR][/COLOR] of English alike.

Srama

I'll be happy to explain the use of "-ing" in verb tenses for you, using your two examples

I am wondering about...

I was wondering about...

"wondering" as it is used here is called the present participle.

The phrase

I am wondering about...

has the present progressive tense (marked by use of "to be" with a present participle). This usually means the action ("am wondering") is happening right now, at this present moment, or has been going on for some time. What form of "to be" (that is, "is/are/am") to use depends on the subject of your sentence:

He is taking a course in flower-arranging to impress her.

They are exercising every day to lose weight.

I think this tense is more correct to use in your example, where the "wondering" has been more of an ongoing process over a length of time that is still occurring.

Your second example

I was wondering about...

is what is called the past progressive tense (marked by was/were with present participle). This tense is used to describe an ongoing action too, but something that was happening in the past and is now over. More examples of past progressive tense use with different subjects:

She was waiting at the bus stop when she first laid eyes on him.

The pupils were behaving badly until they got called to the principal's office.

So, like I said, in this case your first example would seem to be the more appropriate one. Verb tenses can quite complicated, and makes learning English as an adult quite tricky. Here is a link to a useful, simple overview of the topic for those who are interested in reading further:

verb tenses

In my reading to answer Srama's question above, I came across a few references to the distinctively Indian use of progressive tenses in some inappropriate ways. Specifically, the progressive tenses are most suited to action verbs (where an event begins and finishes), as opposed to non-action or stative verbs. Stative verbs are those indicating state, sense, opinion, etc.

He is talking to her on the phone right now.

Talking is an action verb - progressive tense can be used

I like afternoon tea with scones and jam

"Like" is a stative verb in this sentence, so we CANNOT say

I am liking afternoon tea with scones and jam.

More examples of stative verbs:

I think of him whenever I hear that song.

NOT

I am thinking of him whenever I hear that song.


He prefers tennis to badminton.

NOT

He is preferring tennis to badminton.


The teacher seems sleepy every Monday morning.

NOT

The teacher is seeming sleepy every Monday morning.

According to one source, this is an influence from traditional Hindi grammar that has passed over into Indian English usage. I can't tell for sure, because I don't speak Hindi, but maybe one of you can confirm this for us.

Some verbs can be stative or action verbs, depending on the context or meaning of the sentence.

She looks lovely in that dress NOT She is looking lovely in that dress

BUT we can say

He is looking at the photo album while he waits.