Pride and Prejudice - Book of the month

Dear Maddie
I somehow missed this thread.. so I am belatedly replying.. I read it so many many years ago and also have watched the movie. I am going to take part in the discussion question based on my memory as I dont have time now to catch up reading..
1. I remember through this book I got an insight into the life that existed then... How it was for girls and the pressure parents especially mothers faced in finding good grooms for their daughters
2. I dont think the book would have been the same if Jane had been the heroine.
3. Maybe Austen tried to project herself through her heroines
4. Yes I think so.. though very different in that many do not honor commitments.
5. I dont remember all the characters very well.. But what Austen says is true more so today
7. Mr.Bennet seemed to be an yes man to his wife.. but he was a good provider though.
Thanks Maddie for continuing the discussion.

 

dear maddie
when i think of p&p
i think of romance
it was romantic in a way that
is related to thoughts and not actions
the serial' trishna' based on the same was discussed in school
every monday(as it was telecast on sundays)
and tarun dhanrajgir seemed to be the most hansome man possible
how the feelings are age and environment specific
and changes are noted one day when the scene has changed:idea
nice to revisit the book
muzna

 

dear Maddie,
I too had read it long back....and like AC , felt that the setting of the story always reflected the society in existence at that period. That was well brought out by Austen always. Yes Muzna , i too remember that serial Trishna and the Tarun guy! And recently on the German channel the old Hollywood movie was shown, ...i tried to catch up with that also a bit.
But otherwise i don't remember so much that i can discuss the questions you have raised, Maddie......

let's see if anyone else pitches in....Thanks for posting all those questions! I appreciate the effort you are taking to revive this book reading Club Bow

 

Hi Maddie,

Thank you for choosing Pride and Prejudice - a true classic. I'm very new to the bookclub and Indus Ladies but I appreciate the thought behind your discussion questions and found the post intriguing enough to want to respond.
Discussion Questions

1. Pride and Prejudice is probably Austen's most famous, most beloved book. One element, the initial mutual dislike of two people destined to love each other, has become a cliché of the Hollywood romance. I'm sure you can think of numerous examples.

This book has been described by scholars as a very conservative text. Did you find it so? What sort of position do you see it taking on the class system?

As far as it's position on the class system, it gives a pretty accurate view of that period in England and is very much a social drama in many aspects.

It has also been described as Austen's most idealistic book. What do you suppose is meant by that?

I agree with scholars that P&P is Austen's most idealistic book. I've read all of her complete works and of all of them P&P is the one that most accurately focuses on the concerns of that time and society.Furthermore, it has a high moral and intellectual value within the story - the sense of what is honorable and what is not - is strongly conveyed.

2. In 1814 Mary Russell Mitford wrote: "It is impossible not to feel in every line of Pride and Prejudice. . . the entire want of taste which could produce so pert, so worldly a heroine as the beloved of such a man as Darcy. . . Darcy should have married Jane."

Would you have liked the book as well if Jane were its heroine?

Never. But that is probably because I am such a hard core Elizabeth fan. Jane seems rather dull or perhaps it is the way that Austen writes about her that makes her seem a rather ordinary, unremarkable girl who is good no doubt but lacks Elizabeth's spark and intelligence.

Have you ever seen a movie version in which the woman playing Jane was, as Austen imagined her, truly more beautiful than the woman playing Elizabeth?

Yes, I think the first BBC version had a much prettier or more handsome Jane than Elizabeth.

Who doesn't love Elizabeth Bennet?!!

3. Two central characters in Austen have her own first name.

In Emma: Jane Fairfax is a decorous, talented, beautiful woman.

In Pride and Prejudice: Jane Bennet is everything lovely.

What do you make of that?

A coincidence? Or perhaps that Austen aspired to be like these Janes that she created in her mind.

4. Lydia and Wickham pose a danger to the Bennet family as long as they are unmarried and unchecked. But as a married couple, with little improvement in their behavior, this danger vanishes.

In Pride and Prejudice marriage serves many functions. It is a romantic union, a financial merger, and a vehicle for social regulation. Scholar and writer Mary Poovey said that Austen's goal "is to make propriety and romantic desire absolutely congruent."

Think about all the marriages in the book with respect to how well they are fulfilling those functions.

Is marriage today still an institution of social regulation?

Yes, to a certain extent it certainly is. But culture plays an important role in it. For instance, it is much more an institution of social regulation in our part of the world.

What about it would change if gay marriage were legally recognized?

Other than it being the joining of a man and a woman, little else IMHO. I have nothing against gay marriage.

5. Austen suggests that in order to marry well a woman must be pretty, respectable, and have money. In the world of Pride and Prejudice, which of these is most important? Spare a thought for some of the unmarried women in the book-Mary and Kitty Bennet, Miss de Bourgh, Miss Georgiana Darcy, poor, disappointed Caroline Bingley. Which of them do you picture marrying some day? Which of them do you picture marrying well?
I think Miss deBourgh would of course be married off by her mother to a suitable man equal in wealth and stature. And Miss Bingley. I believe Georgiana might take after her brother and marry for love rather than money.


6. Was Charlotte Lucas right to marry Reverend Collins?

Well, it was disappointing to see an educated sensible woman marrying such an unintelligent and silly man. But it was her choice after all - but I still feel she could have done so much better than to live all her life with a man who seemed impossible to hold a decent conversation with.

7. What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man?
I think Mr. Bennet can be a rather selfish man and rather partial among his children - he took a great deal of interest in one or two of his children and could hardly be bothered about the rest. I felt he was a good husband and a good man though.

8. Darcy says that one of Wickham's motivations in his attempted elopement with Georgiana was revenge. What motivations might he have had for running off with Lydia? (Besides the obvious. . .)

9. Elizabeth Bennet says, ". . . people themselves alter so much, that there is something new to be observed in them for ever."

Do any of the characters in the book change substantially? Or do they, as Elizabeth says of Darcy, "in essentials" remain much as they ever were?

I think Mr. Bennet changes some in the book especially towards the end. He starts off as a strong character but once the whole episode with Lydia begins he kind of turns into this helpless creature. Charlotte Lucas also seems to change - seems defeated in her manner in the book after she marries Collins.

10. Elizabeth is furious with Darcy for breaking up the match between Jane and Mr. Bingley. Although he initially defends himself, she changes his mind. Later when Lady Catherine attempts to interfere in his own courtship, he describes this as unjustifiable.

Should you tell a friend if you think they're about to make a big mistake romantically?

Have you ever done so? How did that work out for you?[/quote]
Yes, I would. If they were someone I cared about, I'd tell them so regardless of whether they listened or not. And perhaps even knowing that my saying so would hurt them.

 

Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice looks more like a satire on the period in which she was and her views on marriage in those days. "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."..this is one statement that sets of the theme of the whole novel, where in she talks about marriage and the chase to marriage. Another interesting thing to be noted when we read this book, that Jane was 21 when she wrote the actual book as a series of letters/text as First Impressions which was not accepted for publishing. Her father requested her to re do the book..and the book was done only in her early 30’s. so there is a vast improvement in her own look out as she progresses in the novel, which can be seen through the characters of Elizabeth and also Darcy.

Jane austen’s Emma also establishes that she was a simple romantic at heart with a eye for detail which is visible through her perceptive description of the characters and the dialogues.

The whole novel shows marriages in different settings/situations establishing her first lines.

1. Pride and Prejudice is probably Austen's most famous, most beloved book. One element, the initial mutual dislike of two people destined to love each other, has become a cliché of the <st1lace w:st="on">Hollywood</st1lace> romance. I'm sure you can think of numerous examples.

This book has been described by scholars as a very conservative text. Did you find it so? What sort of position do you see it taking on the class system?

It has also been described as Austen's most idealistic book. What do you suppose is meant by that?

Jane gives a very vivid description of the 18^th century <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">England</st1lace></st1:country-region>. And also about social, economic, and the gender inequality in those days.
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2. In 1814 Mary Russell Mitford wrote: "It is impossible not to feel in every line of Pride and Prejudice. . . the entire want of taste which could produce so pert, so worldly a heroine as the beloved of such a man as Darcy. . . Darcy should have married Jane."

Would you have liked the book as well if Jane were its heroine?

Have you ever seen a version in which the woman playing Jane was, as Austen imagined her, truly more beautiful than the woman playing <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city>?

Who doesn't love Elizabeth Bennet?!!
Jane is the oldest of the five daughter’s in the Bennet family. Beautiful, good-tempered, sweet, amiable, humble and selfless, Jane is flawless, and leaves you to wonder about a real life version of her. She does not judge anyone, and always finds excuses for the person about whom <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:city></st1lace> finds faults. But the same quality left her vulnerable to he hurt by others.



Elizabeth the second daughter of the Bennet, lively, witted, sharp-tongued, bold and intelligent. She is good looking and is noted for her fine eyes. I presume Jane wanted to show her abilities of perception of details so the stress on her eyes. She prides herself as an excellent judge of character and people and lands up in wrong judgements sometimes due to predetermined observations??


Coming to the question, if Jane was the protagonist instead of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city>, the novel would not have these interesting observations as there is a static feel to her character. There needs to be a element of fire(want of the right word) which is seen in the <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city> character.


3. Two central characters in Austen have her own first name.

In Emma: Jane Fairfax is a decorous, talented, beautiful woman.

In Pride and Prejudice: Jane Bennet is everything lovely.

What do you make of that?

It is not a coincidence. she identified with the characters is my assumption.

Jane Bennet was conceived by a 21 year old Austen, who is in the brink of womanhood and is looking at life in a different angle as can be visualized of a 21 year old.

The maturity of Jane Fairfax shows a different view of Jane.



4. <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Lydia</st1:country-region></st1lace> and Wickham pose a danger to the Bennet family as long as they are unmarried and unchecked. But as a married couple, with little improvement in their behavior, this danger vanishes.

In Pride and Prejudice marriage serves many functions. It is a romantic union, a financial merger, and a vehicle for social regulation. Scholar and writer Mary Poovey said that Austen's goal "is to make propriety and romantic desire absolutely congruent."

Think about all the marriages in the book with respect to how well they are fulfilling those functions.

Is marriage today still an institution of social regulation?

What about it would change if gay marriage were legally recognized?

Marriage was a important part in the novel. She uses the marriages to show the differences.

Elizabeth and Darcy’s marriage is one of the successful ones that Jane Austen would have dreamt of. She emphasizes through Elizabeth and Darcy that feelings cannot be brought on appearances or wealth but must gradually develop between the two people as they get to know one another. Though they had differences of opinions, they slowly reconcile with each other as they understand each other and respect each other.

Jane and Bingley had a marriage which could stand because of Jane’s static character in my opinion. But Austen emphasizes that it was good marriage because of their common likes and dislikes and rational thinking.

Charlotte and Collins for financial security.

<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Lydias</st1lace></st1:country-region>’ and Wickhams marriage was based on appearances, good looks, and youthful vivacity. Once these qualities that lured them to each other in the first instant is no longer seen or appreciated that there marriage detiorates and she is seen at her sister’s and parent’s home regularly. This marriage was for regulation and keeping the family repute stable.

Jane Austen has used all the marriages to establish that whatever be the reason for the marriage, it needs time, understand and mutual respect for a successful marriage.

5. Austen suggests that in order to marry well a woman must be pretty, respectable, and have money. In the world of Pride and Prejudice, which of these is most important? Spare a thought for some of the important woman in the book-Mary and Kitty Bennet, Miss de Bourgh, Miss Georgiana Darcy, poor, disappointed Caroline Bingley. Which of them do you picture marrying some day? Which of them do you picture marrying well?

Miss Caroline Bingley

6. Was Charlotte Lucas right to marry Reverend Collins?
The marriage of charlotte is again a way of Jane to show the views of marriage that are opposite to that of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city>. <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Charlotte</st1lace></st1:city> simply marries Collins, for the financial security. She learns to deal with Collins as the marriage progresses, though as usual <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city> has her own doubts on the success of this union.


7. What are your feelings about Mr. Bennet? Is he a good father? A good husband? A good man?

Mr.Bennet is a good man with a good intelligent and thinking mind. If being blind o your children’s needs, and taking refuge in his books to avoid his wife is a qualities ofa good husband he is one. He failed as a Husband by not wanting to be bothered by his wife or family. He failed as a father, when he neglects his daughter’s education.




8. Darcy says that one of Wickham's motivations in his attempted elopement with Georgiana was revenge. What motivations might he have had for running off with <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Lydia</st1lace></st1:country-region>? (Besides the obvious. . .)

<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Lydia</st1lace></st1:country-region>’s obsession with the officers made her an easy target thus boosting his ego.

9. Elizabeth Bennet says, ". . . people themselves alter so much, that there is something new to be observed in them for ever."

Do any of the characters in the book change substantially? Or do they, as <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:city></st1lace> says of Darcy, "in essentials" remain much as they ever were?

Elizabeth and Darcy have changes, though not too vast, but noticeable. Darcy leaves his prejudices and <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1lace></st1:city> her pride. Even Mr.Bennet, becomes a bit stronger towards the end.


10. <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:city></st1lace> is furious with Darcy for breaking up the match between Jane and Mr. Bingley. Although he initially defends himself, she changes his mind. Later when Lady Catherine attempts to interfere in his own courtship, he describes this as unjustifiable.

Should you tell a friend if you think they're about to make a big mistake romantically?

Have you ever done so? How did that work out for you?

Would definitely try to tell a friend. But in romance the person concerned is always blind to others..

I have never done so.

 

If a person has not read Charles Dickens and Jane Austen, he would miss half of the English literature.