Let's Fire Up Those Neurons!

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    It absolutely is. Once a year a whole lot of folks go through a whole lot of trouble in the hope that fortune lady will walk in through their doors.
     
  2. deepslikes

    deepslikes Platinum IL'ite

    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    2,253
    Trophy Points:
    283
    Gender:
    Female
    SPOILER ALERT


















    oh.. still needed to go french at home.. well .. tata!
     
  3. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    SOLUTION for 'Who are they and what links them'

    The clue was hinting at the Hindu myth of Samudra Manthan (churning of the ocean).

    Through divine squamous oscillation,
    Divine is self explanatory, squamous was a reference to a scaly creature which in this case could be both the turtle (Kurma avatar of Vishnu) or the snake Vasuki who was used as a rope to 'oscillate' the churning rod which was Mount Mandar.

    fortune smiled o'er a briny profusion.
    The briny profusion meant a salty mass, i,e., the ocean. Now technically the kshirsagar was an ocean of milk, but I used briny to get the idea of the ocean across without actually using the word. Fortune smiled over the ocean was a direct reference to the goddess Lakshmi who was one of the first entities to arise from the churning.

    Sokanasanah is one of the names of Vishnu as mentioned in the Vishnu Sahastranam. Hence the 'soka was there' clue.

    The answer to the clue was Lakshmi. In popular western culture Lakshmi is associated with the opera Lakme (french version of Lakshmi).

    The man in the picture is Leo Delibes, the author of Lakme. The lady is Simone Tata, a Frenchwoman who married into the Tata family and was one the first chairpersons of Lakme cosmetics. She was responsible for making the company the leading cosmetics manufacturer in India. She is sometimes referred to as The Cosmetics Czarina of India.

    In hindsight, I feel I ought have added a reference to France to make the Lakshmi-Lakme connection a bit more transparent.

    In his answer Soka was referring to the rendition of the famous flower duet from the opera Lakme by Anna Netrebko & Elina Garanca. I prefer the version by Dame Joan Sutherland linked
    here.

    This duet is immensely popular and you'll find that you have most likely heard it on numerous occasions without knowing the source.
    Here is a popular British Airways ad that used this duet as its background score.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Aria

    Aria New IL'ite

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,752
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Female


    I am just curious now that 24 hours is crossed.

    The way I worked out ,trying to convert "Ferragamo" -> "Ferrari" and then your ritaliation was a clue , "Ri" , that was the reason I asked immediately , is that a clue?

    but since you mentioned it was not a clue , I was back to board.

    Was that as deliberate as I interpreted? Because for me that appeared more forceful and direct than what continued.

    Is there something else in any of the stanzas for this "literal" conversion that I missed? There seems to be something out there!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  5. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    POSSIBLE SOLUTION





    I noticed the ritaliation, but I didn't gather too much from it besides the italia, perhaps an attempt to narrow the search space for us? That the ri fits the puzzle occurred to me only after I had solved it.

    The third stanza translates to,

    But the bare hooves, Of my four feet, Grind the stones, Until the dust. Not for beggars, A piece of me!

    The four feet and hooves seemed like an animal at first, but the grind the stones made me think of a car. The not for beggars was also a good clue. But the clincher was this line which must be read without the translation.

    prima di afferrare

    The moment I saw afferrare, I thought Ferrari!. The prima was perhaps alluding to the first Ferrari. A search for Ferrari founder led straight to Enzo Ferrari.

    Not sure if I read more into the rhyme than Soka intended, but that's how I solved it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Aria

    Aria New IL'ite

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,752
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

    Strange the number of ways we can interpret! Since "magnificent" /magnifico was italicized, I set on its trail but then linking it back to 'Magnifico' of Ferragamo.


    I was checking if any of the Magnificent Seven stars kicked the bucket recently in BBC and this link comes up


    BBC - BBC Children in Need - Chris Evans Breakfast Show Auction: The Magnificent Seven

    (the Ferrari auction of magnificent seven)

    I go back again and think, apply Ferragamo --> Ferrari conversion ( strongly believing that it was indeed a clue)

    It was a fluke because I was sure Soka was not referring to this auction but the page helped me to put everything in pieces (reading Ferrari 7 times - Ferra + Ri ) and then I look up Ferrari to see how the dude looks like ...TA :biggrin2:

    The Magnificent Seven - the cars


    • 2011 FERRARI SA APERTA
    • 1990 FERRARI F40
    • 1985 FERRARI 288 GTO
    • 1963 FERRARI 250 GT SWB
    • 1965 FERRARI 275 GTS SPYDER
    • 1961 FERRARI TR61
    • 1963 FERRARI 250 GT LUSSO COMPETITION

    I still thought of it as an animal , the deliberate usage of hooves , a horse , Ferrari's logo.


    I think we might have read this puzzle in too many ways, too many directions than Soka intended! :biggrin2:
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  7. Aria

    Aria New IL'ite

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    1,752
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Soka should have asked

    In quanti modi si può interpretare la poesia _ ;-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  8. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,862
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    In order to accommodate Sandhya’s request to keep answers from becoming spoilers, I have decided to do post the answer as ‘reversed text’. To right it, go to: http://textmechanic.com/Reverse-Text-Generator.html, copy and paste my post and click on ‘reverse text’ to retrieve the original. I hope this is sufficient retina-level encryption!
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,862
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    !elzzup eht fo mrof eht rof noitavitom ym saw tahT *!srac nailatI rieht dna nem htiw uoy ta kcab thgir gnimoc ma I ,seohs nailatI rieht dna nemow htiw em ta emoc uoy fi taht yas ot gniyrt saw I ,’noitailater‘ a saw elzzup eht taht etorw I nehw ,tsael ton tub tsaL )9(
    !neht yb ti dah ehs thguoht I – tropsnart fo smret ni ’levart‘ eht deterpretni-revo evah ot mees I ,’levart ot noitcerid thgir eht neve saw siht fi‘ em deksa airA nehW )8(
    !taht eganam ot drow fo seciohc tnereffid ynam hguorht krow ot dah I .’irarreF‘ ot refer ot desoppus saw ’erarrefa“ ,sey dnA )7(
    .")naM dlO eht( oihcceV ednarG li" ro "erengegnI'l" ro ”erotadnemmoC lI“ ,semankcin ralimis yrev dah irarreF ,revoeroM .ozneroL rof evitunimid a si oznE ,esruoc fo dna ,tih pot eht si ozneroL ’ocifingaM lI‘ rof hcraes uoy fi tub ,evah ot smees airA sa ,ecalp eht revo lla og yam uoy ,hsilgnE ni ,’tnecifingaM ehT‘ epyt uoy fI .icideM ’ed ozneroL ot retniop a saw sihT .’ocifingaM lI‘ eht dedda I ,inihgrobmaL oiccurreF tuo elur ot redro nI )6(
    .llub gnigar a inihgrobmaL rof ,noillats gniraer a si irarreF rof lobmys ehT .inihgrobmaL ro irarreF :seciohc owt evah uoy ,meop eht ni tniop taht tA !yllanimilbus esnes taht teg dluow enoemos taht gnipoh saw I – noitom ralucric & deeps tseggus ot nesohc deedni saw ’tsud ot senots dnirG‘ )5(
    .lamina na ekove ot ’teef ruof‘ & ’sevooh‘ ,omagarreF yb seohs on ni sa ’eraB‘ .slamina tseggus ot stpmorp erew ’teef ruof‘ dna ’sevooh erab‘ ehT )4(
    .omagorreF erotvalaS :er skaL morf elzzup reilrae eht ot tniop ot dednetni saw ”em/iul id ozzep nu“ niarfer eht dna ,klat-eohs tcerid eht lla ,esruoc fo dna ’noitailater‘ drow ehT .’roivaS‘ sa ’erotavlaS‘ gnitalsnart yb elpoep emos gnidaelsim etalsnart)siM( elgooG no detnuoc I )3(
    .*woleb ees ,esnes tnereffid ,rehtona ni eulc a osla si sihT .esle erehwyna eman yb egaugnal eht noitnem ton did I yhw s’tahT .’ailatI‘ dna ’irarreF‘ :ereh detic snosaer eht htob rof ,”noitailatIR“ dda ot tsop ym detide I ,yrrow ot detrats I ecnO .dlrow eht fo tser eht erongi ylefas yam uoY .nailatI si )knalb eht ni eman eht ,teop eht( rekaeps eht taht gnitseggus yb ecaps-hcraes eht worran ot eulc a saw ’nailatI‘ ni ’meop‘ eht gnitirw ,em rof tub – eulc egaugnal ngierof a fo esuaceb - stsaisuhtne evitcepsorp & sredaer tnelis yna tub ,stnapicitrap xis erem a fo werc tnerruc eht hcum os ton - ffo elpoep eracs dluow I taht yrrow ot detrats neht dna peelsa-flah saw I nehw pu elzzup eht edam I .ecaps hcraes eht worran ot dia na saw taht ,seY :”ailatI“ :eR )2(
    .etsap & ypoc eht ni tsol wohemos lla saw tahT .stide rehto edam neht ,’daed‘ eht desare nehT .”yawaevig daed a s’ti ,eulc a fo hcum ton s’ti“ etorw tsrif I ,airA ot gnidnopseR :IRarreF / noitailatIR :eR )1(


    .nac I sa tseb sa nialpxe ot yrt lliw I .)woleb ees( esu ton did uoy taht seulc rehto owt htiw erehwesle ti rof pu ekam did I !nwo sti fo pahsim a ot del evah ot smees hcihw ,drow-SM ot dehctiws I ,segnahc gnisol ,semitemos tuo deggol yllacitamotua teg I ecnis tub ,xob ’ylper‘ eht ni yltcerid etirw I yllausU .LI ot drow-SM morf etsap & tuc ym ni desare tog enil A .reh gnidaelsim ylbissop ,airA ot esnopser ym ni raelcnu tib a saw I taht won ezilaer I tpecxe ,)laivirt dias I yhw s’taht( lanoitnetni dna tcerroc lla era snoitaterpretni eht ,KO
     
    4 people like this.
  10. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,862
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    I do not get any satisfaction out of making up an obscure, insoluble puzzle. I think that that's actually rather easy. I prefer many layered clues when I can manage them, so even a partial recognition will lead to the solution. This frees me from worrying about whether the target of the puzzle is known to the readers or not. I am then free to bring up any subject.

    I would rather pick an obscure (but always interesting, I like to think, to me anyway!) subject and lead someone to it, who has never ever come across such a thing. The idea is that you should be able to find the answer even if you don't know the subject. The hope is that it will pique your interest. In trying to do that, I tend to lay it on pretty thick. Sometimes, the goal is to make the clues interesting in their own right.

    In that Italian puzzle, my hope was that at least some readers will take the time to read the 'poem' in the original 'Italian' (in quotes because I would not want Montale to turn in his grave, provoked by my abuse of his language!). One could order a pizza in Italian and it comes out as poetry! No wonder it's the language of opera. Besides, it helps you catch sound clues as with 'afferrare' as Gauri did!

    There are other subtleties as well - the translator produces very subtly different results based on how you paste things into it. Sometimes, two lines of the poem (split to ensure rhyme & scansion) placed to gather as one 'sentence' produces a better result. In other cases, English -> Italian -> English (or the converse) gives a different result, as was the case with "grind stones until dust" which is inelegant in English.

    Ok, I'm carrying on - time to stop!
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page